Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to the Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers.
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[00:00:12] Speaker B: Business and sport.
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[00:00:37] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the Cultural Things podcast. I'm your host, Brendan Rogers and this is episode 74. And today I am speaking with Ethan Mulholland in the flesh. How are you, buddy?
[00:00:47] Speaker D: Good, mate. How you going?
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Very well, very well. Thanks for coming into the studio, buddy. I'm going to read a little bit of your background and then we'll have a bit of a chat. So Ethan's a 29 year old Gurindji man from Western Sydney. He's in the process of moving to Canberra to work with the Indigenous Marathon foundation with Robert de Costella as the Community Impact Manager. His new role will focus on delivering community programs across Australia through running. He spent the last three and a half years working at the Glen Rehabilitation Centre. And prior to being an employee at the Glen, Ethan was a client. He's now four years clean and sober and hoping to lead by example and inspire others in making healthier lifestyle choices. Today we want to focus on Ethan's journey of leading himself from addiction to sobriety. Ethan, official welcome to the Cultural Things podcast.
[00:01:32] Speaker D: Thank you very much. Good to be here in the flesh. I've seen you, I heard your podcast, but you know, I'm here in the flesh. I feel very special, mate.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: You're supposed to tell me that you've listened to every and watch every single episode. All 73 episodes before this one.
[00:01:45] Speaker D: I'm an honest name. Hey, I'm honest. I'll just be honest.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Good on you, buddy. That's what we love here. Genuine conversations. That's what it's about.
[00:01:51] Speaker D: 100%. Yeah, that's it.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Good on you, mate. Look, this whole. Yeah, we're gonna sort of get into the whole, you know, leading yourself from addiction to sobriety and stuff, but where are you off to? Straight after this.
[00:02:02] Speaker D: This is my last thing I do on the coast and I'm out. I'm off the coast. For good. Well, not for good, but I'll be back. But I'm going to Mum and Dad's to stay for a few days, catch up with family before I head off to Ngunnawal country in Canberra to go work with Dekes and then imf. And so this is the last thing I'll be doing on the coast.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: We're honored, mate.
[00:02:22] Speaker D: All right. So am I.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Beautiful, mate. So look, let's. Let's unpack a bit of your early history. So pre alcohol, I suppose. So you grew up in Western Sydney, as you said. Tell us a bit about that. I guess the early teenage time, growing up in Western Sydney. What was that like for you?
[00:02:40] Speaker D: Yeah, so I suppose just before I hit my teens, life was. Was great. Great upbringing, played a lot of sport. I was a massive rugby league fan. Started playing rugby league when I was 4 years old and I'm not that big or anything, so I was like, probably where my knees are now. 4 years old playing football.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: You hide a grasshopper.
[00:02:58] Speaker D: Yeah. They couldn't find the jersey small enough. So my shirt, my jersey was always up to my wrist and then. But I love rugby league. Massive rabidos fan and idolized Darryl Trindle. Tricky Trindle. So try to dummy did my little chip over the tops always. And then about nine years old, I was in the sport that much. I was looking for something else to do. And my mum and dad said, what about cricket? I said, okay, well, I'll try that out. First year I got selected to play for Penrith. Apparently I was pretty good at cricket. Two years later, captain Penrith played alongside Paddy Cummins, which is now the Australian captain. And in club cricket, it wasn't as fun because he was bowling 120ks and wore like 10 year old and I was opening bats, so I was pretty scary. Had a lot of bruises from him.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:03:44] Speaker D: Yeah, 100%. And so then cricket and football with my thing, rugby league, I was trying out for New South Wales Emerging Blues and I tried out for him. And then in the off season, I decided because I quit rugby league around when cricket happened because I was taking that a bit more serious because I was playing indoor cricket outdoor and I was representing Penrith. So I gave up footy for a couple years, but I decided I want to go back to rugby league because I hit high school. So 13, 14 years old and all my mates are playing rugby league and I wanted to be cool kid. And so I played rugby league. And the club I was playing for was red and green. So I was like, well, there you go. So snapped my arm in the trial match. So I went back. I was obviously going pretty good at footy. And then I was running with the ball, bouncing around like a little jackrabbit. And then I Went to go fence on my arm snapped in half and I was like oh. And then was in a cast for about four to six months and then after that I remember I don't remember going back to any sport. I suppose that was about year 8, year 9 so about 14, 14, 15 year old and started partying on the weekends. Started doing what the old. Because I always looked up to older kids and they were drinking and doing their parties and as a party at someone else's house so that become my weekend sport if you will and that was what I was up to. So every weekend from that moment on when I started drinking it disconnected me from myself so from who I really was was this person, you know, like Sporty wouldn't say I was good in school, I was smart but I just couldn't pay attention much. But I was more into like hands on like sport and stuff like that. So yeah so that age started drinking around Western Sydney it was just a normal thing to do. So I thought that's what everyone else is doing and I thought everyone else is doing it. So I had that sense of belonging where I belong with this group having fun and I didn't realize how much it was this disconnecting from myself back at that age. When I look back on it now it's like it makes sense how it all led to it. And then around about 16, 17 the drugs got involved in party drugs every now and then so you got like the ecstasy and all that sort of stuff and that was a part of my life and yeah so then fast forward to like to around like 18 and that and that's when I sort of got a bit more. I was always on and off so I would have like a rough few months on drinking and using drugs and then I stopped myself but it was just always like a revolving door of like no, no, I can stop whenever I want but didn't know how to. So it was more like I dealt with every emotion through alcohol if you will. So then that's growing up out western Sydney I suppose I didn't know there was much help out there as I'll get into a bit later with the glen and all that. I didn't realize there was that help out there so wasn't aware of it and always thought I could do stuff on my own I'd be right and mum and dad always had the answers for me but me being me just. I just never listened and decided to find out for myself and that's where yeah so a bit of a early teens out western Sydney growing up. It's just a bit of the, I suppose the culture. It's the culture out there, every other situation. And that's what I hung around that culture. And I don't blame anyone else around there because I was a part of it, I was the one in that. So it's all, it was all my own doing because I had a choice at that age and that's the path I chose to go.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: You said earlier looking back you can see sort of where things may have snowballed and whatever. Can you unpack that a bit? Like what were some of those things that looking back now, you think were triggers and started to move you on a path that you're not on now. But it took you down that path.
[00:07:20] Speaker D: For a while, I suppose. I realize I drank differently from a lot of people. I realized stress or going like I always wanted to be the biggest drinker in the group and I think I've got that title a few times and just the stresses with life. So from 13, 14 year old, I'm drinking every weekend. So and then what comes with that is hangovers and then, and then you're not really, you're not really yourself the next day or the next two days if you drink pretty hard. And then that escalated with problems, say with being unmanageable. So around that age where I started work and I wouldn't turn up all the time. So then I'll feel like crap because I'm not living up to my full potential. So the best way I know to get over that, what's going on in my head about feeling crap, I didn't go to work is to drink again. And that's how I dealt with that party mode. Like everything's happy drink. And that's just where it took me because it led up to what I thought was just going to be fun every weekend. And then I sort my life out. I'm still young, I'm still young. I'm supposed to be doing this. And it led to carrying on for the next 10 to 12 years. So. And I just never knew how to shake it because that become me. My identity is drinking, drinking and then eventually just getting on drugs. And that's how I dealt with everything, ignoring all the head noise that I was going through. So.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Yeah, you said earlier too, I guess there was some influence there. You enjoyed hanging around older people. What was that enjoyment about? Like, why was that so for you?
[00:08:55] Speaker D: I think so. I got an older sister and I used to hang out with her friends and all that and all the guys and a couple years older. So I just thought what they were doing was fun compared to people in my own age bracket. Always hang out with my older cousin too. So I've always had that older influence. And I always feel like I matured a bit older for my age. I was getting in clubs at 16. Always just felt like I had to be a bit older. And I was just already. Grew up a bit too quick, I suppose. Grew up a bit too quick. Like I suppose it growing up out there. And I just felt like because I was so disconnected from myself when I started drinking, I realized that's who I want to be with, hang around these guys. Because I thought it was the fun. It was. It was what I thought where I'd.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Be also, again, want to go back to something. So you broke your arm and, you know, so sport was off the cards for a little while. And you're right into your football, your rugby league and your cricket. Not the real football, just rugby league.
[00:09:51] Speaker D: Exactly right. That's why I think I corrected before, because I know people say football.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: That's why I'm pointing it out. It's not the real football. It's just rugby league.
[00:09:58] Speaker D: Rugby league, rugby league.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: But rugby league and cricket. And again, what I'd like to understand and help our listeners understand in this journey of, you know, okay, the damage to the arm, you know, pretty major damage by the sounds of it. But looking back again, what was. Was that the single biggest thing that sort of you broke your dream, so to speak, you know, that you're on this sort of path and enjoying your sport and whatever, and then a serious injury. Then you said you led down this. But was that the main thing or was there something else around that point that took you down there?
[00:10:30] Speaker D: I suppose that was the start of it, but I think I'd always had a problem with. I think my life was always going to go down that way either way.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Why do you say that?
[00:10:38] Speaker D: I think just because of the culture out of Western Sydney of what seems normal, the normal culture of being around. So I'm a product of my environment. So if I surround myself with people who are doing that, that's what I'd be doing. I didn't surround myself around people that were just not going out on weekends, who were doing their sport, taking their sport seriously, going through their training. I hung around the people that were who. Which was I suppose, the easier option. What I thought was just going out, hanging out with them and not. And disconnect from myself because I thought as soon as the alcohol and that touch, as soon as I started drinking, I just felt this is, this is, this is it. This is what life I want to. This is great. Why isn't everyone else, you know? And then because I was just the buzz that I got, I suppose it got rid of like gets rid of anxiety. I'm out there, I'm having fun, I'm. I'm loud and part the next day talking about what we got up to and good old bad things. And that's, that's what I thought fun was. And I think just the alcohol itself, it's. And then that moment just set it off. I wouldn't say that's, that's the reason for my downfall, but I think that's the moment I remember is that when I started falling love about sport, falling out of love with sport because I wasn't able to do anything for four months. So sitting there for four months, not. And I'm really, really active like all ball sports, I'm running everything, I'm just running around mad. So sit there for four months. And then I had no resilience I suppose back then either to bounce back from an injury and then to get back into it. I just thought, no, that's too late now. I won't make a rep side again. Self doubt too. So self doubt and just not much awareness.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Tell us a bit about maybe what those dark roads look like. You know, you, you're sort of 13, 14 and you're, you're on a road and leading down a certain way and it gets darker and darker the further away. What is it? What does a dark road look like in that time of, you know, the old Ethan Mulholland.
[00:12:36] Speaker D: Yeah. So around the teens where I think it was all fun, it's all fun and games. And I always said to myself, I think when I was like 16, 17, I said, Nah, I'll wait till I'm 18 and I'll get my stuff, I'll get my stuff together, you know, I'll get it all together. 18 is a good age. And I thought, always back then I thought, no, still young, still young. But from 18 to 25, life went like that real quick. Especially when you're drinking and using drugs. Life goes so quick around 19, you know, in and out of jobs and stuff like that. And I just, I knew I had potential to do something or to do stuff in life, but I just had this drug and alcohol addiction that I just couldn't shake because for one, I didn't ask anyone for help I was like that. Never asked anyone for help. I fought, I think from, I suppose around 15, 16, the longest I've gone without drinking. A big session, like, it was probably five weeks till 25 years old, so about 10 years. I remember one time I was five weeks off the grog, everything, and I felt amazing. I felt great. I was like. But the easy thing, stopping, like after a big night, it's easy to not, you know, for me to stop, but the hardest thing is staying stopped. And it isn't just about stopping. There's a lot more to it. It's, you know, anyone can stop, but then you can mentally damage yourself if you just got no tools on how to deal with certain emotions or deal with wanting to drink again. Like all that craving or what's. What's ruining you, you think, you know, I need a drink.
So leading down that path, about 19, 20, it's a bit blurry from 20 to 25, to be honest, but the heavier drugs got involved around 20 to 25. And when you're down that road and like, because my mum and dad and my sisters and my brother and they're all great family, so I didn't. I was too ashamed to tell anyone I had a problem. It was that bad. Some people seen it, some people didn't. But it gets darker and darker because it's like I'm on my own where there's a thousand. There's heaps of people out there willing to help, but I just never put my hand up for like years, years, years. And it gets darker and darker and then you think, you know, what's my options? And my options. I had a fear of being alive. I used to enjoy sleeping because what I was dreaming was better than reality. So I'll just always try and sleep, sleep, sleep. Because then I wake up feeling like I'm still here. I've got to deal with this stuff. I'm getting nowhere in life. And then I'm living with mum and dad still. And When I was 13, I had dreams to be here. I'm 25 years old, I'm like, what am I doing? I suppose I had like a quarter life crisis. I always say, like a quarter life crisis, like 25. And it just hit me and it got dark and it got to a point where I was at. I was either going to kill myself or ask for help. And obviously I asked for help and my life changed from that. Those three words. I just said, I need help. And then that was. I was actually going to tell my sister. I remember the day, it was January 8, 2018, and it was a Monday and about 8am still remember it. And I was pacing up and down the hallway and I was going to tell my sister, but she went out the backyard and I was like. And then I was like, no, no, I'll be right. And then my mum went in her room and I just went in there and just said, I need help. And then broke down. Always get emotional talking about, of course, but. But emotional because I'm just so happy that I did that and, you know, like, broke down and I was just like, I need help. She's like, what's wrong? I just couldn't even say words. I was like, I need help. And then went off the hospital, got all those checkups and stuff, and then met a guy, a place called Maramwajali, out at Mount Druitt, which is like a drug and alcohol counselling service, and met a fellow named David there and he was the one who gave me the idea about the glen. And I was actually supposed to. I was going to that meeting for his counselling session with him and then Mum was like, come on, we'll go. And I'm like, no, no, it's all right, I'm good now. She goes, get your ass up, we're going. And then I went there. And then my life changed forever since. Since asking for help. It just changed from there. And then meeting Dave, introducing me, made me feel comfortable about wanting to go to a rehab to start with, because my interpretation of a rehab was straightjackets movies, and they're just walking around like that. But that's where my life got to. I was willing to go to a place like that. I was just like, I need help. This is so hard, like, for years and years struggling, that's all I had to do is just ask for help.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: I need help. Very powerful words and particularly for leaders. I need help.
[00:17:04] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Again, we need to go through, you know, a bit about the Glen and sort of the rest of the journey. But you mentioned about you were off the grog for five weeks, drugs and alcohol for five weeks. What was it at that time that gave you the impetus to actually try and be off it for five weeks? Do you remember?
[00:17:24] Speaker D: Yeah. Because I couldn't hold a job. Couldn't hold a job. At the time, the relationship I was in wasn't going too good. I thought, I need to sort that out. And I always knew, always in the back of my mind was the alcohol. For me, like, I always knew that that was a problem and I Knew if I could get rid of that, things will get at least better because there's always the cause of things or it's just the way. Because I'm not myself when I'm drunk and if I'm drunk most of the week, I'm just not me. And at the time that motivated me, I suppose the relationship I was in the. And keeping a job feeling like absolute crap because I wanted to, I want to go and work, but I just physically, mentally, spiritually cannot get up and just turn my phone off, ignoring everyone. The shame and guilt comes. That comes with that. And then I knew if I just get off the alcohol and then I was going to work every day and I was killing it. And I've always known my own potential. But that sort of motivated me because the moment I did ask for help, I wasn't. I was. I suppose I was on a long bender and that. But it wasn't the worst drinking or drug session I've ever had that led into it. I was actually. I was probably a couple of drinks before the day before. I wasn't even drunk when I asked for help. I was completely sober and I was.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: So you were yourself?
[00:18:39] Speaker D: I was myself. Exactly right, Save me. Say like, Ethan, you know, save me. Like, now, go tell your mum. And then, because that little, little devil in your shoulder, the alcoholic devil, is just like, no, no, you're right, you're right, you're right. Keep drinking, keep drinking. Then that little, little angel there had something left in him and like, he was probably asleep and then she probably like, go, go do it now and then. So, yeah, that and that five weeks gave me hope for, like, in the long run. And I always remember that five weeks and then five weeks later, I think it was around this time because I remember it was Easter and I got a gift of beer for Easter. And those. That one drink, it was like, oh, I think I said, oh, six pack, it's Easter. You know, like forgetting all the stuff that's just happened over the last years. I'm like, that six pack just look so delicious. And I have one bang, six. And then it's on. And then I'm back to knock on.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: Someone who maybe didn't know your story, I take it.
[00:19:33] Speaker D: Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't. Wouldn't know now. Wouldn't know so much about what I was going through. No way. Knew I was sort of bit sober, but, yeah, sort of didn't know. No one ever understood. So it's never like, well, you weren't there for Me. And it was like more I knew what was going on, but I never really communicated it or showed it because I was just always hiding it as well, trying to put on a brave face in front of people.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: But again, you said earlier how you were sort of hiding things and. And whatever, and. But, you know, family know that something's not quite right. So what. What was your reflection on?
I guess the awareness of what was happening around you from a family perspective whilst you were, you know, to be fair, damaging yourself and your family.
[00:20:16] Speaker D: Well, I spent a lot of time not going home or seeing them or turning up to certain events. And it's obvious when there's like a little birthday party or a christening, you know, Ethan's not there. So, like, it's an obvious thing. But my family always. My pop and my nana and all that, they always had a thing knowing that I'd be all right. And my pop always tells this story that when he was. When he was younger, when I was just a bit born, he had a dream about an elder smoking him in his dream and saying, leave that boy alone. He'll be okay. And like, my mum's side, my pop's not even. He's not indigenous, but it scared the hell out of him because he's like, I just got smoked in this dream, and I was a young kid back then, so no one knew what was going to lead up. But he always told me, he said, you'll be all right. I know. I got told, just let you do your life and you come out on the other end. Good. So. And he always told me that story. And he's someone who's a bit of a skeptic or whatnot and wouldn't. But this is one thing he always says to me, this is before. And so, yeah, the family all knew it. And then when I finally asked for help, it was sort of like, yeah, yeah, good.
And then that sort of led me to the wonderful place of the Glen Rehab.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: I think people would want to know, certainly I want to know as well, is what did you feel you didn't have in that five weeks? That I understand that action of, okay, here's a six pack and whatever. But what, what, again, in hindsight, beautiful thing, on reflection, you didn't have around you that you needed to make a different decision even when the six pack was in front of you.
[00:21:47] Speaker D: 100% people that are in recovery as well. So I didn't have people that have been in that position before. I had no one to call up and say, look, I'VE got a six pack in front of me, I don't want to drink it, but it's there. I didn't have, I suppose the tools, I suppose of recovery of like where's it going to lead me? You know, I sort of knew where it was leading me but it was sort of just subconscious like being open crack. But I didn't have, I suppose the people as the people, the connection of others. I didn't have someone like a mentor. I didn't have a mentor or anyone to say to me, say, hey look, you sober for four to five weeks, make sure you know when Easter comes, like you call me up before if there's anything like that. And these days it's like I've got people around me, I hear stories of others, same story as me that I can relate to and then there's my connection and there's my, my mob of people that I need around me. So I got all these tools of obviously working in a rehab for one as well, like learning about people's stories, learning about myself, my triggers, which is my worst fear was not thinking that I'll be able to have fun without drinking because I was a. Every Friday night it was like it's party. So then first few Fridays in rehab were like, were really hard because like it's Friday night and I'm like. And my body clock is like, where's the alcohol? What are you doing? Where's the party?
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Where's the fun?
[00:23:07] Speaker D: Where's the party at? And then I was like. And I was. It was. But then two weeks later forgot what day was and I was going really well enough. And then I realized I'm going really well when I'm not focused on what day it is. Back to what didn't I have, I suppose the tools to know. And some people around me that have been there before, that's probably where what I didn't have back then.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: So what took you then to that famous decision on 8th January 2018 to say I need help?
[00:23:34] Speaker D: I think I realised I couldn't do it on my own anymore. I was suicidal. Like the cause I had the Christmas. That's right, I had Christmas on 2017. So I felt like absolutely crap because I'm in no position to get anyone presents. I'm probably 10 kilos less what you see now. So I spent that drinking with mates, ignoring my family because I was too ashamed to go there. New Year's Day, massive bender. And the next six, I suppose the next from January 1st that was just drinking Cocaine. And. Yeah, and then I was. And then I just got to the point where I had a fear of being alive. I was like, I want something to take me out. I was always too scared to just go and do it. I just said, I was just. And I remember I was just driving around, running the muck and just hoping something will take me out. I was just, I can't do it. And then I woke up general having a fear of dying. So I went from a fear of being alive, like, I don't want to be here. Then that sleep on the lounge room in Mum and Dad's house, waking up. And then that little, little angel said, you're not going to die. Let's go.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: Tell us a little bit more about that, I guess. Can I say the next 48, 72 hours from that day, I need help for sure.
[00:24:46] Speaker D: So, straight to the doctors. Doctor sent me straight straight to the mental. Mental health at Nepan at Penrith. And me being me, I was like. Because I told someone, I felt great, this huge weight just come off my shoulders. I was like, oh, I'm all good. And then because I'm on a high, I'm speaking to, like, the nurses or the doctors. I'm speaking to them like, I'm all good now, you know, like, which I thought I was good at the time. And I was just saying, yeah, no, it's all good. And then I was waiting there and then they interviewed me. I was like, I'm good. And I think I was just worried or not. I was just not bothered to do more work about it. Like, okay, I've told someone I need help. And I thought. And then the lady speaking had other ideas. Yeah, actually, at the time, no, from that moment on, like, I was completely, like, off the grog. Nothing. Like, I just said, no, it's done. But that's what I mean. Like that five weeks where I was off at being great and then got to like a week of me being sober and then I was just doing nothing with my life because I had no. I didn't want to go back to doing what I was doing for work because I suppose the culture of that too was alcohol and drugs everywhere and I couldn't put myself there. I just had no purpose in life either. So it's fair enough that I stopped and I need help. Cool. But what do I do now? Do I just sit at home and just bum. But it's only a matter of time before I decide drinks the best idea as well. So the next 48, 72 hours was getting that therapy sessions and then speaking to someone at Mount Druitt, which was David, which led me into there about a week later where I'm glad mum and that sort of mum and my old man got me into it because that was the next step for me to getting more help, you know, without that would have been pretty, pretty hard. But I was living in the right direction, which unfortunately it's hard. A lot of people don't have that support around them either. So I hope this can reach out to people to find the right people. If someone's watching it as well, that realize, you know, there is help out there, a lot of help. You just gotta reach out.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: So from there being in the hospital in Nepean area, Nepean hospital and the mental health unit there, what's the next process and where does the Glenn come in for you?
[00:26:58] Speaker D: Yeah. So then three weeks later, I'm at the Glen, just like that. So I applied for the Glenn.
When he was explaining to me, when he was explaining to me, I was like, I don't want to go to rehab. Or it was like for 12 weeks. I said, oh, 12 weeks is a bit long time. And I had all this fear of like what I'm going to miss out on. And I sort of just felt like, you idiot. Like, who cares if there's a public holiday coming up? You got no money anyway. What are you doing?
I'm like, that's the moment I had to say, look, everything's at the table. Like, who cares whose birthday it is coming up, Whose birthday or Christmas or. I've got to be there for that. I need to save myself here because I won't make my next birthday if I don't get this right.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: So you really had to make a decision to focus on yourself.
[00:27:40] Speaker D: Yeah. Had that self awareness just kicked in? It's just like, dude, like the conversations I had with myself completely changed from arson for help. And then just looking into the glen as well on the right, on the website, looked in the website, I was like, this is perfect culturally. Like they do dancing, they do the art. Like it's just this is what I need in my life to go somewhere where I'm just taught things and that all the stuff that I ignored from my parents years ago, you know, all that little how to apply for a job and just the small things in life that I just didn't, I ignored because I was just. My mates were doing that. But yeah, so it led to the Glen on the 24th of January. So. And then that was On a Wednesday, I'm pretty sure. So I remember, I remember that very clear.
I got a bad short term memory, but I can remember it was 28 degrees Celsius. No, no. I don't know.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: Significant moments in your life, mate, you probably should remember these days.
[00:28:34] Speaker D: And then got the bus up when David was telling me about the glen and goes, oh, it's turning up the road. I'm like, I'm not going up the road. I'm like, I'm from here, I'm not gonna. But up the road, in his language was an hour and a half.
Got on, on the bus with another lad that was going in there that day and absolutely crapped myself. Like, I'm about to go into a facility rehab. Like, I. On the bus, I was like, wow, my life's really got here, you know, Like I'm. I'm going to rehab because of the stigma attached to it, right? Like, I felt embarrassed, but also proud at the same time. Like, don't care what anyone thinks. Like, I need help. I'll be more embarrassed if I don't go and do this. And the bus trip up and I was met by one of the counselors, Maddie, Maddie from the south coast. And I was just so welcoming and warming. And the first few hours, man, was amazing.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: What was it about it?
[00:29:27] Speaker D: The people that were there, the workers, the clients that are there at the time, because we're all going through the same thing. And all they had, they just showed me around, they took me on a tour, they go, mate, you're in the. Brother, you're in the right place. Like, what's your poison? What are you, the grog? And then there's like 20 blokes, they're just saying, because it's exciting when a new fellow comes in, because they know it's changed them. And they know this dude walking through the gate now that. That's completely damaged, he's going to get in a shock of his life. And that Wednesday night, there's a meeting around the fire and I was just like, whoa, wow. Like, because it's just honestly, like how having a yarn now, just lads telling the story, how I'm doing it around the farmers. Like, that's my story. That's my story. This Guy's been here 10 weeks, he's cleaning sober. He just gave me the solution to what, what I'm. What's been bugging my mind about, like, you know, whatever it may be. But he was. There's this. I was just like, like an hour I walked out and I'm like, my spirit came back and I'm just like, this is the place to be. And then a week later, I'm out there dancing in front of 7,000 people, Sydney FC, and I forget who it was at Central Coast Stadium, painting up, shaking a leg. And I remember the phone call to my mum to go tell her to meet. Meet me there, because we could invite family. And. And I remember the phone, she's. What happened? What happened? Like, I said, I said, listen, she goes, are you Karma? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Mum being mum. And. And I said, yeah. I said, look, I said. She goes, how? I said, honestly, I said. And she could hear it on my voice, like. Like, I'm having the best time. Like, I never ever thought I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have a great time at rehab, like. And then invited her out and painted up and. And that was really important for me too, to get back into culture, Aboriginal culture, my heritage, you know, like, make my nan proud, you know, like my dad. So just to paint up on ochre and then dance in front of 7,000 people, you'd think you'd be a bit nervous, but as soon as that paint comes on the ochre, it's just game day, you know, like, it's.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: What was it about that experience that made it so good for you, the dance?
[00:31:34] Speaker D: Well, back to my heritage. It's. It's who I am, it's my identity. I'm not. I wasn't born to be an alcoholic, you know, that's not me. That's alcohol. That's. That's the bad spirit. This is a good spirit, you know, so drinking, spirits, painting up Mother Earth and dancing for. Not for others, and dancing for me, to my family, my mob, it's the first time I've ever done that too. Well, like, I was. Had chances do it younger and all that, but growing up around that way, you sort of. That's the culture, is the drinking. Like, that's the way I went then, drinking culture. And. But it's just. It's like when I finish a good run today, you know, like when I do a lot of running, I feel like that. That endorphins are pumping. But the dancing is like mental, physical, spiritual, all three in one. And then to do it in front of 7,000 people for one of the first times ever was special. And I won't forget that ever.
[00:32:29] Speaker C: Our interview will continue after this.
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[00:33:26] Speaker B: Where does that identity get lost? I mean again, there's drug and alcohol problems in society across the board in Australia there's a, you know, there is a, unfortunately a bigger problem in the Aboriginal community. Where does that identity get lost and what are we not doing there? That is creating this environment that is not helping the Aboriginal community moving forward.
[00:33:46] Speaker D: Yeah, well, for me it's. As soon, as soon as the alcohol was just as soon as it touched my lips was this like, it's not me. I knew it wasn't me. But the damage it can do where like it was only introduced into Aboriginal culture. It was not even that long ago. So where it's all new and lowest life expectancy in the world. Indigenous culture so got all this other stuff like certain foods and it just wasn't a part of it. So when you're putting something into your body that's not meant to be there, your body's going to react a different way. And preventable measures, I suppose like prevent prevention is better than the cure as well. So the youth, which is like try and get into the someone where I was, when I was I had that road where I could choose the indigenous youth to sort of give them more opportunity in areas where alcohol isn't an option, which is hard because there's borderloads every 2km. So it's. And it's acceptable more than anything else, but it's, it's at the end of the day, it's the cause of a lot of deaths, health issues. So I suppose the best thing I can do for myself is to lead by example where it could take you and just hopefully spark someone's mind to not make those decisions. Especially in the indigenous space as well. There's a whole opportunity, there's great life out there and alcohol doesn't need to rule it.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: That Glenn rehabilitation program, that first 12 weeks, what was it there that gave you the confidence and the sense of identity and the self belief that you are building this foundation because again, this is where personal responsibility comes in, isn't it? That you're there, you're building foundations. There's some things happening. What was it that started to create that for you and to kick in.
[00:35:36] Speaker D: I think, because you got structure, routine. So you're waking up, you're making your bed. Couldn't remember the last time I made my bed before that, to be honest and just being straight honest then I actually didn't even know how to work the washing machine because.
[00:35:50] Speaker B: And sounds like your mum's too good to you, mate.
[00:35:53] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this is a funny story I always tell everyone.
My roommate at the time, Steve, God love him, it was great because it was real talkative, like you can talk, talk, talk. But I sort of was ready because I was ready to get in there and I was observant and I was a sponge. Like I was absorbing all this good stuff, you know, where I fed myself.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Knowledge.
[00:36:13] Speaker D: Yeah, knowledge. And I was ready to hear it and I'm really observant and I was like. I said, man, can you show me how to use this washing machine? And then you press two buttons. I put it in and then press the button. I was like, is that it?
Sorry Mom.
I was like, I was like, I put it down like, oh wow, that's it, that's it. You know, and then those little small things that, that I did, the small small things that like structured routine, eating, training, physical, mental, spiritual, telling people about how I'm feeling for the day. I just build on that and every day. And then I actually did go to rehab to learn how to drink properly. I thought I was going to go then like, you know, I'll be able. But for me it's never a couple and why would I want that couple? Why would I want to drink to anyway if I'm. If it doesn't go good for me, why to socialize thing. But I learned how to socialize without having to do it. And it was. It's hard. It is hard, but it's just what I got to do if I want my life to go the way I want it to go. Building on those, learning those things like that and absorbing all the knowledge from the counselors, watching how they do things, watching how Shane watching how Alex and Joe watching everyone and saying these are the. Because I hung around people that back in the day that I was around. I wasn't the best influence myself either, but I was doing that and I thought if I can put all that energy and stuff into what they're doing. I'll become like them and I'll be able to get the opportunities like them. And then the 12 weeks I was there, now I got to transition. So that's where I also told David that he goes, oh, at the rehab for 12 weeks, you can also have an opportunity to live on site. I'm like, I'm not living on there. I'm getting 12 weeks. I'm coming back home. Like, what are you? Like, just so I just had no idea what I was in for. And it was good because. And I stayed there for seven months at the glen and built more. Built more on the foundation. So the transition program is where you do the 12 weeks and you stay longer. You stay longer to go to work, get tickets. So then I went up to the butchers up the road, got a start there. My second day in transition, put myself. I said, gonna need work. And then I started that Friday, I think I went up on Tuesday or Wednesday, and then I started Friday. And I had no idea it was the meat that got delivered to the glen. So I was like. I was like, oh. So then they. They must have rang Joe or something like. And I've got to start just because I'm linked in with the glen. So they gave me a go. And I'm forever grateful for them. At Murphy's at Chittaway, and I started working there. And when I was working as a butcher, I realized, because I used to do butchering back in the day, and I realized that's not me. I said, I need to be helping people. Like, I feel like I was put here to help others. And I quit that job and I said, look, I'm. I had no, no idea where I was going to go next, but I always wanted to work at the glen. And I planted the seed in Joe's head or everyone else. I said, look, I said, if you need someone to work here, I'm keen. And then I got two days a week. So they tried me out. And a few weeks later, four days a week. And then within a month I was full time. And then I'm. But I had to move out because I was working at the rehab while I was living there, getting a bit of work within there, and then got my first ever place on my own, got my. Bought my own car. All those things are just, just so I should have done many years ago. And then, yeah, come February 2019 is when I was full time at the glen. And then, yeah, just think about it now, it happened so Fast, because I thought I'd go out for a few years and come back and work. But I was there within eight months, working there and taking the guys on outings, doing events, you know, one on one yarns with them. Like, just, I know how the program works. I observed all the workers before. I'm like, well, I'll take a bit of you, bit of him, bit of him, bit of her, how they approach people and how they deal with things. And always, like, if I don't know how to do things, I'll find the right person to do it as well. So it's always things I picked up on and, and then progress progressed and then. Yeah.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: What do you think Joe saw in you to give you that opportunity at the Glen? Because it does. It's not an opportunity that comes to everybody.
[00:40:18] Speaker D: Yeah. Well, he always tells me was I took some people on a tour of the Glen and he didn't know much of me. He only probably heard a bit about me, didn't know much of me. And he always says that, went on tour and I did most of speaking and he said, he said I knew more about the Glenn than him. He's like, he goes, he goes. He was really impressed of how he was blown away about this. Who is this guy? What's this guy? He knows, like, because I learned about the Glen, the culture and why it's there. It sort of. It always. It means something. And. And then I took people on tour and I had no idea he was even watching at that time. But I was just so proud of what the Glenn done. And I'd share about how it started. I'll share about what the fire means. I'll share a bit about my story in between. Make a few people laugh, make them feel welcome at home. And then he seen that and then planted a few seeds. And then I think my first job at the Glen was to make about 100 sets of clapsticks. And I'm not really good with woodwork, but I made it happen. I did it because I just. I was just happy to be there and happy to be working for them. So 100 says clapsticks. And then it got to like taking the guys to touch footy, like taking them to the beach. Not bad, you know, Gig, mate. Yeah, tough gig. Yeah. Taking to the beach on outings, going sports games and. But that's what works. Like, it's. It's not about like, you know, giving them eight hours of therapy and just document it. It's bringing these fellas back to life again. And now with the women opening, women's were opening up, doing the same for them.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: So absolutely exciting times.
[00:41:44] Speaker D: Yeah, very exciting.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: I guess it's similar to what you're saying, you know, there's, there's another life outside of maybe what you've always known and, and putting people in that sort of situation to. Yeah, to go to the beach sober, you know, to be involved in some cricket or, you know, whatever. Some of these guys, and maybe girls have never had that opportunity. I'm guessing 100%.
[00:42:06] Speaker D: So, like the routine, like covers, like, you got music, art, sport, and with the glance, real flexible. So if someone came up to me and said, I want to start doing poetry, us as workers, we'll, we'll, we'll get them poetry lessons, like, we'll do it. Like that's what you want to do. And musicians come in there and then they always think, you know, how am I going to play without drinking? We've had some musicians come in and, and then we do like a Glenn's Got Talent show, which I've always dodged.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Which I always like, you've got talent.
[00:42:35] Speaker D: Yeah. I was like, well, do you want to run around in circles for like three hours or like singing that? So I've dodged with that. They're going to laugh at that. But there's a singer, a great musician man, and like, and he performed for the first time sober, in front of everyone for a while. But giving him that, giving people, like community, like volunteer work, cleaning up the waterways and graffiti removal, helping our neighbors out, you know, just doing those things that give us a sense of worth. Like, you know, I've helped someone today and that's what, you know, that's what. Always try and strive to help others and, but yeah, and bringing them back to life. That's what it is. Some guys grew up on the beach, saltwater, and they haven't been in a beach because they're too ashamed, because that's culturally for them, it's where they should be. And then they get clean and sober, then they go on a little beach trip that everyone thinks, oh, you were five minutes from the beach, what of it? But to him it means a lot because that's what he, what he used to do. And then he's connecting back with himself.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: During your time at the Glen and even from being an employee of the Glen. So take the client and the employee perspective. What has been the most significant challenge that you've come across?
[00:43:49] Speaker D: Personally, the biggest challenge would be going from client to staff member. Because the biggest challenge was because When I went done that there were still people I went in the program with that were as a client and now I'm a worker and then now I've got to tell them certain things to do. So I suppose that was a big challenge but I think I was just that buzzing that much that my life was going so good. Like the biggest change I could see was just doing that like going from client and staff member real quick. And my life happened like I said I grew up pretty fast I thought I did. So my life was always going full steam ahead, always. So I think I did that and a few months later that got easier.
[00:44:28] Speaker B: I guess in an organizational world it's almost like being the team member then going to be the supervisor. So what, what worked for you as far as managing that transition, that process.
[00:44:39] Speaker D: Speaking to people like Shane and all that and like how do I deal with this? And also delegating certain things because over the next three months clients will start leaving and then within the next three months there'll be a whole whole bunch of new guys there. So they don't know that I was a client three or four months ago. Yeah so those. But I always told myself me being me those clients that were there when I was there and I was working there, I still, they're my mates, they're my brothers like and if something got too difficult always ask Shane or someone how do I deal with this and just ask for help and how to deal with it all. And I just dealt with it and just said but usually the Glenn's that honest and things get sorted straight away like that so it's not an issue for too long but it was pretty easy because they were all happy for me too come through and so they're all happy and buzzing that I was, you know, I'm working there and but my role wasn't. They didn't give me a role the Glen to be in a position where it could happen either. So I suppose yeah just the work environment, the work culture at the Glen with the people there. It's like I said, it's a family. We argue. Everyone you know, doesn't get along, gets along. One minute we, you know, we'll argue with them, next minute we'll go dealing with them outside of work. It's a really strong family atmosphere there and I suppose it's just honest conversations just okay yeah and squishes straight away.
[00:46:03] Speaker B: How about again your own journey of being a client at the Glen and then become an employee. How do you think having that client experience you Know, what have you remembered through your. Through your experience? And then sort of coming in, how does that helped you be a better support person for the guys in the program today?
[00:46:23] Speaker D: Well, there's. There's one word that I think everyone needs, if you're working in that field, is empathy. And you need, you need to care how others feel. And I know how they feel in certain situations because I was sitting. I've done the program, I've been through certain things they've gone through. Not always, but I understand how they feel or what time. Like, you know, they've been here for a few weeks, they're getting like this. I'm always thinking, you know, because sometimes their behavior is not so good. But it's never some. It's never like someone's left a bit of spilled milk on the table. Like, what else is going on? Like, because you can walk past that when you're going, well, oh, well, it's only milk. But when you're having a really crap day and someone spills milk, you want to, you know, who done that? Who done this? And so empathy, wondering, knowing how others feel and then sorting it out with them. I think that's what one of the strengths I got from when I started working there. Understanding that the clients, I know, I know where they're at most of the time, and I can sort of see it in their face, and I know that. Yeah. So empathy, I think it's a big thing, just in general. I think everyone should care how others feel a lot. So that's, I think, one of my, my main things. I love always thinking how others feel and then, yeah, always cautious of that.
[00:47:39] Speaker B: So you finished with the Glenn only last week? Last Friday, yes. And have you had a chance to look back and think, well, is there.
[00:47:47] Speaker A: Is there any regret?
[00:47:48] Speaker B: Is there any regrets for you? And I don't mean about leaving the Glenn. You haven't had time to regret and you haven't started your new role yet, which we'll go into. But just in your experience there, like, what. What's a situation that you wish you could have impacted on or changed or whatever.
[00:48:01] Speaker D: So, like something that I might miss.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: Or more, whether it's been a, you know, maybe a situation where you felt that it didn't, you wish you could have done X to. To maybe change the outcome. That might been in your own journey. It might have actually been in a client's journey as well. We really, you know, I think in hindsight we could have. I could have done this to really help, and it might have made a difference, you know, what sort of regret do you. If, if any.
[00:48:23] Speaker D: Yeah, well, I think what comes to my mind when you say that is just the guys I'm working with, I've been working with for the last suppose two to three, four months because you come attached and you help them from day one. You sort of. There's no.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: This is the clients in the program.
[00:48:38] Speaker D: Clients in the program, yeah. So some of them have been there for a few weeks, some of them have been there for six to eight months. So I know very well every single one of the clients. So it's thinking like, oh, I'll help this guy do this and then I'll leave. But it's. There's always going to be. It's going to be hard to leave there and it has very hard place to leave. Especially when I went from where I was at, like I said earlier, to where I was and what the opportunity, all the opportunities that Glenn gave me to leave. That was probably the hardest thing, is not continual working with them guys and helping them. Still kicking off some goals that they got coming up. But I trust in the Glen and the workers that are there now, so. But told all the guys, if you need me, I'm still here. If I don't answer, I just, I don't want to be on the phone today. I don't want to be on the phone today. As simple as that. So nothing personal. Text me, I'll call you when I'm ready. But yeah, so the hardest thing, I suppose what I, what I wish, you know, like a regret, probably be like, oh, I wonder how he's going. But I know, I know they'll be fine. I know that'd be good. And I watch from afar from the Facebook page at the Glen. They'll text me. I get some random messages from guys three years ago that, because I let them all know that I'm leaving the Glen and then just all the comments refresh my memory of what I have done for them and what they've done for me. Because it's how it works. Help them, seeing them thrive, empathy. See, I know how they feel when they, when those little girls get ticked, when they work the washing machine, you know, when they, when they press that button, I'm like, I know that feeling.
[00:50:08] Speaker B: I mean they're, they're little goals, but they're big, big goals in that journey and the perspective that you can offer. You know how big those sort of things are in life.
[00:50:17] Speaker D: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. There's little, you know, do the little things, right? And then big things come a lot easier, but they're. They gotta be done, those little things, you know. And sometimes we don't know what we don't know. So I always tell people that. And I always tell people about the washing machine thing. Cause if I didn't know how to do it, I don't know. But when people are embarrassed about how they don't know how to read or ride or they don't know how to do this, like I can't even swim. I can run and play sport, but I'm not a good swimmer. And I told the guy, I said.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: Is this why you don't take us up on the offer to swim down, interrogate 100%.
[00:50:45] Speaker D: That's exactly right.
Ziggy and all that. Try to drink.
[00:50:49] Speaker B: Everyone's trying to get you down there.
[00:50:50] Speaker D: They try to drag me down and, and I got for, I think for Christmas on my birthday last year, I got some floaties.
So everyone always buys me floaties.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: You can always count on your mates, can't you?
[00:51:00] Speaker D: Yeah, of course. But that's the person I love. I love a little dig, a little sly little digger at everyone. And grew up where I grew up. You got a thick skin. Got a thick skin out there, cuz otherwise you'll just break.
But yeah, so you only know what you know. And yeah, so hopefully Canberra, learn how to swim and I'll come down and come down.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: You're going further inland, mate. You know that water much there?
[00:51:24] Speaker D: See what I'm doing, See what I'm doing?
[00:51:27] Speaker B: So let's, let's go into that because you're moving to a role with the Indigenous Marathon foundation, as we said in the intro, working with Rob DeCostella. Fantastic opportunity, well done. How is, how has running become part of your journey? How has that helped you in your journey?
[00:51:42] Speaker D: So, and it all come from the Glenn as well. So then the only reason why I found out about the marathon, Indigenous Marathon project was through a fellow named Chris, who I work with. And he's really enthusiastic and he's like, mate, mate, hey, you gotta, you gotta. Do you want to go to New York? And I was just like, what are you on about? And he goes, mate, Indigenous marathon. He goes, how old are you? I said, I think I was 20, 27. And he's like, oh. And I looked into it, I go, wow, what an opportunity. And then like, I hated, like, to be honest, I don't. I hated running. Like, I love running around with sport, but I always never grasp the thought of People just running with no, like, you can't score, you can't kick. Because I was like a sprinter. And so then I was like, but you know what? It's not about the. It's not even about the marathon. Marathon's cool. I said, it's the opportunity to get my story out there even more about where I've come from. And I felt like if I can train for a marathon within 5 months. Never ran more than, I think 10k it was or something like that. If I can train for that in five months and get it done, and I'll show these guys at the glen clients that I was where they were. I can do this, I can do that. It sends a message of hope. And like, not that they have to run a marathon, but anything like I've come from, you know, wanted to kill myself to running my first marathon. And so Chris gave me the idea. I tried out for it. I applied, just gave him brutal, honest story with like a five kilometer trial run up in Newcastle. And it was like 38 degrees. And the night before, I was eating Cheetos.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: About preparation.
[00:53:22] Speaker D: Yeah, no, yeah. I knew very well playing sport, but I was just like, I don't know why I just ate it. And. And I didn't even bring any water. And I drove up to Newcastle and then Adrian coaches, I'm looking at him like, yeah, I'm like, I can do 5k easy. There's 12 laps of, I think like 4k. I think 12 laps of cricket over up there and ran, ran, ran around. And Cheeto started coming up a bit. I was like, hold it down, hold it down. But I didn't stop. I went the whole way, didn't stop. But like, I was just pale white because I was ready to vomit. And I didn't. And then told him my story and then told him I'm from the Glen. And he was going from Newcastle to Sydney for the next trials. And I thought, this guy has to go past the Glenn. I'll show him the Glenn. And then showed him, took him on a tour like I did, like Joe says with that tour. And like you at the glen, you've been around the glen. And took him on a tour, told him my story, and I said, this is me, blah, blah. And then a few weeks later, I got call up and you're running a marathon. Supposed to be in New York, but covered so. But what was even better, we got to run our first marathon in Alice Springs under a full moon. Midnight marathon on Halloween.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:54:31] Speaker D: Yeah. Some experience, crazy experience. And Then, you know, and that's just it. Chris gave me the idea and then, like, I'm like, great opportunity. I can do that and make my family proud. They're seeing someone who was how he was. Now he's in the middle of the country just running a marathon, also throwing his guts up in the middle of Australia under a full moon.
[00:54:55] Speaker B: Like, fertilizing.
[00:54:56] Speaker D: Fertilizing, yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, just. Yeah, giving them, you know, fertilizing the ground there because it's a bit dry there, so I thought it was a little liquid. Well, it was dry. It was. It was crazy experience. It was crazy in a good way. Beautiful. We got to go to Yondermu and camp under the stars two days prior. Yeah, and there's always these opportunities that come, and this is literally from giving up the grog and giving up all that stuff. Opportunities come. Surround myself with the right people and opportunities come away and I grab them and I'm confident. I'm not like, my confidence and my trust in people that, you know, this is the way to go.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: So now this next chapter of your journey said going to the Indigenous Marathon foundation and leading over there. You also mentioned before how you didn't really enjoy running for the sake of running.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: I'm with you, mate.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: I've never been a huge fan of it, but for some reason we're more into running now. What is it? That's. How has that come about? Like, what is. What has that process been to? You know, not liking that. But then now it's. Now it's part of your DNA.
[00:56:00] Speaker D: Yeah, now I'm doing ultra marathons. And you're a nutter. Yeah, I know, I know. I know this because something about the.
[00:56:09] Speaker B: Glen, everyone comes in, they just come out nutters. They want to run 10 marathons in 10 days and all sorts of stuff.
[00:56:14] Speaker D: Yeah, that's. I think he's doing that next week.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: What is it?
[00:56:16] Speaker B: Like, what is it that plants that seed that just says, you know what this is? This is now just part of me.
[00:56:21] Speaker D: Because, like, when I first started running, so we got our first training schedule, and I think it was like 3 or 4k run. 3 or 4k on a Wednesday. Just easy. But me is like, no, I'm not running easy. I'm going to sprint this 4K. And I said. I said. And I burnt out after, like, 700 meters. And I was just like, why this is going to be hard? Like, what have I signed up for? I'm like, man, like, I'm like, I want to do this and prove myself something and help others. Okay. But, man, I really want to. I want to pull up. I'm like, no, no, I'm not. I was so used to starting and not finishing things back when I was younger. I did like, always started, like. Like a boxing lesson. And I won't go back a week after Muay Thai and all that. I do all these things, but I'll just. Always started and never finished. I said. Then it's like the conversation with myself. I said, no, no, we're getting into this. Find out why you're burning out. Call up the coach. Someone that's been there knows more than me. And I just learned to pace myself. It's all in a rhythm. Like, it's all. I'm not trying to. Like, who am I? I'm not racing anyone. Like, I'm just run. Enjoy. And I had headphones in and they broke. And it's the best thing that ever happened because now I don't. I don't. I'm. I'm great with that music. And I was like, they broke it three weeks in because I was just buying, like, a Kmart pair, I think 15 bucks. And they broke. And I was like, okay, well, I'm without it because I got to get this training in. And then I'm pacing myself and I'm like, oh, this is actually pretty good. I can breathe and it's just all rhythmic. And then this. Tell me all these little analogies. It's like a. One of the analogies that stuck out and is like, when you're running, it's like a bucket of water and you're slowly just tipping from it. Just slowly tipping from it. If you tip out straight away at the end at start, you. You got nothing left. Pour the rest out when you're near the end, when you've got nothing left, keep putting that smash in that bucket. And I fell in love with it because I learned how to do it properly. Not just enough fan, like, and then the endorphins and the people you meet, the places you go. So. And I thought running, you wouldn't be spending much money because you're just running. I mean, watch shoes, gels, all these magnesium, all this stuff you spend the money on. And just the people you meet, like, it's. You run, you sweat together. You.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: We should have had some of your sponsorships put on the table, mate.
[00:58:29] Speaker D: I've got a sponsor.
Sponsor me.
[00:58:31] Speaker B: We'll sort it out.
[00:58:32] Speaker D: We'll sort it out.
But. But no, cool. It's just the people that you meet and run with, running groups, like there's that sense of belonging again. So like I got my running thing, I've got my recovery friends, I've got my family, I've got the Glenn, the.
[00:58:47] Speaker B: Imf really sort of building this community around you.
[00:58:50] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. And just with positive people. And I've still got my friends that, you know, that I grew up with and you know, I've got some of them help and now they're doing good as well. And all my friends there that they know they can reach out to me whenever they want if they need me, you know, like, love them all. I just can't be around that area for a bit going do my thing, representing Western Sydney around the world and country through running and being me and showing people that people from out that way can change their life and make something for themselves.
[00:59:23] Speaker B: What are you looking forward to most with the new opportunity at the imf?
[00:59:26] Speaker D: What I'm looking forward to is learning. Learning how they just operate like it's. They're on a national scale, so they're around the country just how they, why they're doing it. I know why they're doing it, how, how they just make it happen. Go the ins and outs. I just do what I do with the Glenn, observe everyone, see what they do and, and learn and give my best, give my best and just hopefully help others train for their marathon now like I did with the Glenn, help them through their recovery now. Learn everything I can just to give back at the end. I'm someone, if I get knowledge, I just can't wait to share it or teach others. And so I'm looking forward to most is learning, learning on how they do it. Because I'm coming from drug and alcohol space to a completely different, I suppose different space altogether. So it's. That's what I'm looking forward to. Learning something new things. Learn something new.
[01:00:16] Speaker B: How do you hope to inspire others who have, you know, experienced a journey like yours? Maybe not Western Sydney in other parts, but what do you, what does that look like for you? How do you, how do you hope to inspire others who are, you know, on a path which has got some dark roads on it to seeing the light, so to speak?
[01:00:34] Speaker D: I think just with my actions and how I carry myself, I don't go telling people how to do things if I'm not doing that at that time. You know, like, I think just sharing my story like this, sharing my story and telling people that they know there's hope out there.
There's help out there. Sorry. And just by my actions, just this is what I've done, this is how I'm doing it. This is how I carry myself. I help others and it can be done no matter how. Cause there's a part there when it's dark, you think nothing can save you. You think, no, like that's it, like it's too much work or it's that. But that word, you know the word work that you need to do all this work. It's. It's just the day by day thing. I always thought I'd stop drinking forever. And then someone said, don't think of it, you're going to give yourself anxiety. Don't worry about what's going to happen. Just don't drink today, keep it in the day. Do what you got to do today and everything will fall into place. And that calmed my anxiety because I was like, what about this day? What about that? Nothing ever ends up how you think it's going to be like nothing. Like next week or if I'm about to drive down to Mum and Dad's now, you know that road trip's not going to think how it's going to.
[01:01:42] Speaker B: Be like, it's enjoy the journey.
[01:01:43] Speaker D: But enjoy the journey. Yeah. Be in the moment, like, you know, like as I said, the depression back in the past, anxiety in the future. But when you're in the moment, like I said, I forget what day it is because when I forget what day it is, I'm going really well because I'm not really focused on the next or what happened yesterday.
[01:01:59] Speaker B: Mate, you've got in shorts and shirt, T shirt. Today you've got a few tats on you. Yeah, right. I'm interested to know, and our listeners will be very interested to know, what's one that you want to tell us a bit of a story about?
[01:02:10] Speaker D: I've got a few. It would have to be this rabbit. Would have to be the rabbit.
[01:02:13] Speaker B: You just had to pick it, didn't you?
[01:02:14] Speaker D: Oh, no, it's staring at you.
[01:02:16] Speaker B: You might just need to stand up so we can see it properly. Nice. You're not flexing your quad there after rabbit.
[01:02:21] Speaker D: No, I'm getting that much. I'm just skin and bone.
[01:02:24] Speaker B: Tell us about the rabbit. So why is that one so important for you?
[01:02:28] Speaker D: So it's my journey. It's because I've got a lot of half. Like I'm not half my 30s. I'm not really. Can't wait to get them all just fixed up and out of there and it's my journey. It's a rabbit. I'm a rabbito. Kylie Cassidy. So she come through not come through the Glenn. She. She volunteered at the glen around the time I started and she's a Wadri woman who helped me do my first bit of Aboriginal art. Never, never ever got into it because I just didn't know how or just wasn't really interested and I did it and I painted something for mum and dad and first time ever and so she's known my journey. She's seen me from day one, seen me go through the glen transition like day by day and she's followed. She knows we've been there since like day dot together and now she's the COO of the women's center. I hope I got that right.
[01:03:17] Speaker B: So I think you did.
[01:03:19] Speaker D: Yeah. So she's. So she's gone here and then me. So me and her we've. We've sort of gone from like just starting there together and anyway so she's a great artist and I wish I should have brought in this cricket bat that I have. It's. She painted it for me in Kookaburra. Just shows my tells my journey.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: When you get to your parents place mate, take a photo if you can. Yeah, send it to us.
[01:03:40] Speaker D: Yeah I think I put in storage. Ah that's a. I'll remind you. Yeah. If I go back there storage before I go home I know where it is. It is in storage.
[01:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:48] Speaker D: So it turns my journey in the middle there's the water of darken young country. The people around me who support me on the dots the new beginnings on the neck of the rabbit and it just represents my story and she knows and I didn't even have to tell her what I wanted. She just knew and then she'd done it and she painted up and I got it tatted on me so that means a lot to me that rabbit. And so that's my story and rabbit of course the mighty bunnies who are struggling a bit but we'll get there.
[01:04:17] Speaker B: The great story, mate. No, I didn't know that. And I've met Kylie, she's a wonderful person as well so yeah, fantastic.
[01:04:24] Speaker D: Yeah. And all the other tattoos I suppose it means like this is the guy's arm like my dad's name, my little brother Bowen and then the girls, my two sisters, my mum and their star signs. So obviously my real close family means a lot. Yeah, of course. Yeah yeah. So they're amazing. So. And a lot of half other Finnish tattoos which. Yeah, yeah.
[01:04:46] Speaker B: Neither here nor there.
[01:04:47] Speaker D: They're good at the time.
[01:04:49] Speaker B: A different moment of your life.
[01:04:50] Speaker D: Exactly right. Exactly.
[01:04:52] Speaker B: So, mate, let's start to wrap this up. What's had the greatest impact on your leadership journey?
[01:04:59] Speaker D: I suppose the greatest impact is knowing that I'm a leader, whether I like it or not, that my actions speak a lot louder than what I say or do and how I carry myself. And it just makes me feel good that people do look up to me and because I'm always about wanting to give back. So, you know, back before the glen, I used to think later, like, the word leader was like a, you know, do this, do that, but I know it's more like, let me show you how to do this, let me show you how to do that. And the people that taught me everything, I'm a product of all them. So I've taken bits of everyone, of all the leaders that I looked up to, and I hope that my actions and what I do in the future will show that and then people will sort of take a bit from me and put it into their life. Take. There might be something they don't like. That's cool. Leave that. Take what you. Take what you believe. I said that's right. Or what I'm doing is right.
[01:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Well said, mate. Well said. So, look, I just want to say I've known you for, I don't know, maybe 12, bit more than 12 months, and I'm really honored to have you on the show. Absolutely. I wanted to tell or to unpack your story because a lot of what you shared today, I didn't know, but I knew that there was a story. And with doing what you're doing and where you're going and such an exciting future, you've still got a lot of years ahead of you. You're only 29, as we said at the top of the show, mate, I'm really impressed with what you're doing now, what you've done through the glen. I'm sure I've spent a lot of time with Joe and. And Alex over the time, and they're very impressed with, you know, this man, this. This person you've become and are going to continue to become into the future. So all well for the imf, I'm sure you'll do a fantastic job at succeed there. The other thing I have to say, which is what I love working with, you know, getting to know people like yourself that have come through these sort of journeys that are maybe different to a lot of others, but they're your normal to some extent, but there's an extreme level of vulnerability that comes out. And in order to heal and get through things, particularly some of the stuff you shared with us today, you need to have that extreme level of vulnerability. And that underpins leadership in my book. So you're a true leader, mate. Thanks for being a guest on the Culture of Things podcast.
[01:07:17] Speaker D: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
[01:07:28] Speaker A: Are you living a life your parents would be proud of? Ethan wasn't, but he sure is now. His parents, brothers and sisters are super proud of the man he's become, especially overcoming the challenges a drug and alcohol addiction can bring. We have all overcome challenges, but overcoming a situation you put yourself into, like addiction, and working your way through to the other side, well, that takes enormous resilience, courage, and support. Ethan had the unwavering support of his family. They believed in him. That belief was strong enough to help get Ethan to believe in himself and design his new life. From addiction to sobriety. Do you have the strength to believe in yourself and design the life you want? These were my three key takeaways from my conversation with Ethan. My first key takeaway, leaders find their true self. Ethan lost himself for about 10 years. From a young teenager to his mid-20s. He was a person he didn't want to be, with drugs and alcohol leading him week to week. As he said, he was disconnected from himself. Eventually, he rediscovered his true self and is now living that out as a true leader. He has worked hard to find his true self. My second key takeaway, leaders ask for help. Asking for help isn't a weakness. It's a sign of strength. When did you last ask for help? It could be something small or it could be a significant life choice like Ethan had. Do you remember what you were doing on Monday, 8th of January, 2018? Ethan does. He was starting his leadership journey by asking for help. My third key takeaway, leaders elevate others. Ethan's been helping to elevate others over the last four years at the Glen. In his words, it's about bringing people back to life, elevating them from addiction to sobriety so they too can experience their family being proud of them. Ethan's walked the path and has used his experience to empathize, support, and lift others out of addiction. True leaders elevate others to achieve their potential. So, in summary, my three key takeaways were leaders find their true self, Leaders ask for help, and leaders elevate others. If you want to talk culture, leadership or teamwork, or have any questions or feedback about the episode you can leave me a comment on the socials or you can leave me a voice message@thecultureofthings.com thanks for joining me. And remember, the best outcome is on the other side of a genuine conversation.
Thank you for listening to the Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers. Please visit brendanrogers.com to access the show notes. If you love the Culture of Things podcast, please subscribe, rate and give a review on Apple Podcasts. And remember, a healthy culture is your competitive advantage.
