Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You know, I travel all around the world and, you know, different cultures have different policies, percentages and stuff. And, you know, I definitely tip everyone because, you know, I think first and foremost, unless it's absolutely horrible, everyone's, you know, putting in the mind frame that everyone's really trying to do their best. And sometimes the service staff is something outside of their control.
The cooks later, there's someone didn't show up from work, so they have less staff at the front desk, whatever it is. So whether or not tipping drives good service, I think people generally are who they are, and if they have a service heart like I talked about earlier, I think they're generally going to do a good job for you.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: What does it take to create moments that last a lifetime and fuel the growth of your business?
Today we're speaking with Andy McNeil, the CEO and founder of american meetings. Andy's a titan in the meetings and events industry. With a career spanning over three decades, his company not only orchestrates phenomenal events worldwide, but also embodies the spirit of service and hospitality. At its core, his business isn't just about transactions. It's about creating meaningful connections. If you're interested in improving the customer experience your business delivers, check out my conversation with Andy McNeil.
Tell us just a little bit of short backstory, mate, how you've got to where you're at today.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Oh, goodness. I started about 30 years ago in this business, in the meetings and events and hospitality business. And I was really looking for something that I could have a passion in and had always done meetings and events. You know, in college and in high school, I was part of the student council. And after 911, when we had that terrible incident here in the United States, a lot of people reflected about what they really wanted to do and what was important to them and what they were good at. And I, when I was in a role that I was probably going to be very successful, but something I wasn't happy doing. And so I really stepped back and decided to open up my own organization that did something that I love to do, which was, you know, have a service hard and do things to make people happy. And that's what we do here at our company. We help organizations put on fantastic events and create everlasting memories.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: I've got this image in my head, mate, that during your college days and high school days, you were sort of the life of the party person. Were you that the man Andy needed to be at the party to make, make sure it was all happening?
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Well, yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I loved being involved. I still love hosting family and friends and having parties. I think it's just a great way to go through life, to enjoy other people's company and make people happy. I just think it's a great way to enjoy life.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a fair point. Us conservative type people can pick you flashy people a mile away, I'll tell you.
But how about you, given your vast experience? We've just shared a little bit of. But how do you define hospitality in a business context?
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Well, I think hospitality is, you know, it's, you know, it's. It's customer service with a purpose. It's making sure that you are forward thinking about your customer at all times. And in the meeting and event world, you only get one chance to do anything really, really well. And, you know, once it. Once it happens, it happens. And so having that, you know, service heart and making sure that you have that mentality when you go in to do it makes all the difference in the world and having an experience. And you and I were talking about this earlier, you know, virtual versus live. There's nothing like being one on one with a person and engaging with them and having a good experience with them. And if we can help our clients do that, which what we try to do every day, we think it's a great way to build your business and a great way to drive hospitality through your entire organization.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: And embracing those sorts of things for your own business, and obviously, helping others do that as well. How have you seen that? Enhance your business and grow your business.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so we practice what we preach. We're big event marketers, driving our business through establishing relationships at conferences and trade shows. And really what is, I think is really important is when you do that, that you make sure that you have a plan in place, and you make it happen. We've all been in a situation where you're in a room and you don't know anybody, and you're not comfortable, and, like, how do you, like, engage with other people? And that step from being uncomfortable to being comfortable, making it happen, that's something that can be taught. And so we try to teach that every day to our staff members, who then teach it to our clients. But it's really having that service heart about trying to make someone feel better, make them feel comfortable in that situation. And when you do that, what do you do, Brendan? You build trust. You build trust between you and your clients. And once you have that trust, the old adage is people do business with people who they like, and who they trust. And so you build that trust over time, and doing it live in person, and establishing those relationships really is the best way to go. And so that's what we try to teach here every day.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Let me push you, mate. Give us your greatest tip on how to engage with people and achieve some of those things you talked about, especially like trust.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think at the beginning it's creating that personal relationship. So I think it starts with when you walk up to someone and try to establish that personal friendship. First of all, you have to be warm and friendly. You have to be confident. And a lot of us aren't. You know, a lot of people are introverts, but you have to act in an extrovert way on a day to day basis, especially when you're networking, especially when you're trying to grow your business. And how do you do that? Well, the first thing is, is you get to know the person's name. And so that's probably the first trick and the easiest one, because how is it, how often do you meet someone and then you forget their name? And so, you know, when I. Before I came on here today, I made sure that I knew your name.
I kind of got to know a little bit about your business by doing some research. But I also made sure that I knew that your first name was Brendan and that wasn't going to forget it. And I do that by an old adage is you say, Brendan. Hi, Brendan. And then in your head you say, Brendan. Brendan. Brendan. And then if you do that, you are pretty sure that you're going to have the name in your head. Release that tire engagement and using that personal interaction and using their name creates psychologically that bond of trust early. So when you see them 20 minutes later, say, hey, Brendan, where'd you go? You're creating that one on one connection, and that's the first step to establishing that business relationship.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: In the hybrid working world, I've seen too many business owners and their businesses suffer because of poor performing employees, leading to below average results.
If you want to improve your employees performance, to deliver consistent results for your business, you have to master one on one meetings. The doors to our master one on one meetings training program are opening soon. I'll teach you how to improve employee performance and deliver consistent results using one on one meetings. To be one of the first people notified when the doors open, go to leaderbydesign. Au waitlist. Don't wait. Sign up now.
It's a great answer. Alan.
Andy.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: So you didn't do it Brandon, you didn't do that ahead of time?
[00:08:39] Speaker B: Had I already built some rapport so it just falls on deaf ears. But it reminds me of a story again. Many years ago I used to say, God, I'm terrible at remembering names. I can't remember who told me, who said this to me. But Brendan, you know what your greatest problem is? You tell yourself you're terrible at remembering names. Once I flick that switch is like I have, I feel like I'm much better. I still forget absolutely. But yeah, I just feel more confident in remembering names and things like that. Mind shift. Shift makes a big difference, doesn't it?
[00:09:10] Speaker A: It really does. You know, I have another friend that puts the name immediately into their phone as soon as they get a chance. You know there anything that repeats it and you have a trick to do it. But when I was younger, when I was in my twenties and I was just getting started, I just found myself and, you know, I'm a high visionary and high visionaries typically have very short attention spans and I just could never remember anybody's name. And, you know, it really caught me a few times where I would either forget their name or see them the next time and not know it. So, you know, really having a plan in place to make sure that you remember it and just get used to it, just make it part of your, your networking regimen, I think is just critical. Especially if you're young and you're listening and you want something. Because people like that then also asking them a few things about their family, what's important to them, and then remembering those with technology today, you can put straight in their contact card and notes and look at it right before the next time you see them. Those little tips, they matter. They matter because you're establishing a relationship and trust and then being authentic, most importantly. Right, I'm giving you these tips and tricks, but truly to being authentic and understanding that you might have ten other things on your mind, but to be present at the time when you're talking to anybody and establishing that relationship builds that trust, which goes back to how you can. What we're going to talk about today is building a hospitality mindset through your business and creating that sense of, that sense of passion, that convey, that you can convey through your employees. Because as your business grows, it's harder and harder for you to be there every day.
At AMI, we run a couple thousand meetings a year all over the world and obviously I can't be at each one of those. But what we try to teach our team is to lead with your heart and understanding that what your customer is trying to accomplish and be there every step of the way to help them accomplish it.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Andy, you've given such good advice in that snippet. A great answer. How do a lot of our platform is listened to by small business owners, you know, business owners like yourself that are doing great things, maybe some trouble with their team and growing their business, all that sort of stuff. But we look at that lens and some of the stuff you just shared. How do, how do business owners integrate this sort of hospitality mindset into their strategy in order to work on that growth aspect that they're all chasing so much?
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think first and foremost I'd like to say that it can be done in any organization, whether you're a sole proprietor or you're running a large corporation. Really what you want to do is you need to convey it to your staff, what does hospitality mean to you?
And define that. And then most importantly, train and retrain and make it part of your culture. And the only way I've learned over the years to make it part of your culture is to, you know, develop pillars of what you think a hospitality mindset is for your organization.
And then, you know, train on it and talk about it all the time. Use it as a point of reference. You know, it should be right up there with your value statement to make sure that you're conveying that to your team all the time and they become to know it. Most importantly, though, and the best thing I ever did about a decade ago was I took the hiring of my team members and my company away from myself. I found an expert, a professional who's built a team, who understands what we're looking for and has put it in place and then goes and finds those individuals. A lot of times we build our businesses on friends and family or people we know or people we run into. But there is something to be said about having a set process and looking, using that process to identify the right people for the right seats at the right time. And so someone who might be just a wonderful employee, if they're sitting in the wrong seat and you haven't put them in the wrong seat, they're not going to be happy, you're not going to be happy, and that's going to convey to your customers. So what you really want to do is understand what you're trying to convey from a hospitality standpoint, but hire in that frame of reference, understand what you're looking for. You don't want somebody in customer service that is more of a processor and someone that wants to sit and look at numbers all day. That's okay. There's a place for them, a very important place for them, a critical place for them in your business. But at the end of the day, you want to make sure that they're in the right seat. And when you do that, it makes a huge, huge difference in being able to grow and scale your company.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: When you're dealing with other businesses, whether that's you sort of seeking a service or just through some interaction for your own business, but not in your own business, what are the things that stand out for you? Again, you're living and breathing this. You developed a culture there. This is very much part of your DNA. So what are you looking for? What stands out for you from a business who is focused on hospitality in that customer experience?
[00:14:49] Speaker A: Well, I've been doing this for a long time, and one thing more than anything is understanding that, like people, businesses have to have a good cultural fit. And a lot of times, it's very, very hard. And I'm sure you see this in your business, Brendan, sometime is sometimes you're working with someone that it just doesn't work. The personalities aren't there, the culture's not there. How they perceive business, their business ethics might be different than yours.
That amount of energy it takes to drive that piece of business versus looking for companies that have the same value system, yours does make a huge difference.
With all the hindsight that I've had over the years. Now we really look at that and we say to ourselves, are we a good fit for that organization? Do we have the same value set? Do we have the same work style? This doesn't have to be perfect, but you really need to understand who you're getting into bed with. And if you're going to do it, make sure that you do it, because it's so much harder to run a piece of business that. Where everyone's not on the same page and is rowing the same way.
And when you see the difference, when you. You'll feel the difference before you see the difference. But you know, it's okay to let go of a client. And, you know, more than anything I've learned over the years is the best way to have a successful company and grow a company is to have clients that you can interact with and have a good relationship with, especially in the b two b side. You know, B two c, is a little different when it's more transactional. But b two b, is all about relationships and growing those relationships and it makes a huge difference when everyone's working together.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah, couldn't agree more.
I haven't met or worked with a business owner that doesn't want to deliver on a great customer experience. Let's say, if we can bask at that hospitality, in my view, drives a great customer experience.
But they're not always often or not often mirroring what customer experience looks like in their own organization. So let me put that on you. What do you do? Do you think you do day to day that mirrors some of these cultural things, some of these behaviours that your team are seeing, that you're not just talking, but you're walking the talk?
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think first and foremost, people are hiring you as an expert and they're hiring your team as an expert. So everyone needs to be an expert, everyone needs to be educated and trained. I think training a lot, especially small organizations, don't spend enough time on training.
And what is training? Training is repetition. It's, you know, increasing the knowledge base and the expertise of your employees. And that is something very hard to do, especially when you're early on in your business and then seeking professional guidance from business professionals that do consulting work on different areas. It could be on team building, on change management, on contract negotiation, whatever it is that you need to train on. But training, training, training, taking the time to step back. It's hard to invest in that when you're trying to drive your business on a day to day basis. Until everyone's an expert that's being hired by and being retained by your clients, you're always going to have those challenges and then never letting them. And once you have those experts, even if you don't know the answer, never letting them see you sweat, know that you're the expert and being honest.
If you don't know something or don't have an answer, be honest with the client and say, that's a great question. Let us get back to you with some solutions around that, and that will make you look like you're being honest and forthright, creating that trust that we talked about earlier, but also providing them what they asked for and doing it in a way that provides value to them. I think training is just absolutely huge.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: And this is a bit more of a, I guess a cultural specific. So in Australia, we don't really have a formal tipping system at all. The US is obviously very, very different. How do you find in the US that either tipping improves or detracts from that hospitality experience and also framing that around that? I feel like, at least in Australia and interested in your thoughts in the US, is that even more of an opportunity for businesses and business owners to have their business stand out from an improving hospitality and service level? Because my view in Australia is that we're sort of going backwards, not forwards, as far as service levels. What's your view on this?
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Well, that's an interesting question.
I travel all around the world and different cultures have different policies, percentages and stuff, and I definitely tip everyone because I think first and foremost, unless it's absolutely horrible, everyone's putting in the mind frame, everyone's really trying to do their best. And sometimes the service staff, it's something outside of their control.
The cooks, later there's someone didn't show up from work, so they have less staff at the front desk, whatever it is. So whether or not tipping drives good service, I think people generally are who they are, and if they have a service heart like I talked about earlier, I think they're generally going to do a good job for you in America, obviously, we are in a tipping culture and I think that becomes a kind of a crutch in a lot of ways, when in fact a lot of people just are good service providers naturally, and they're going to do as good as they can regardless of it.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: It's interesting, isn't it? Because I hate tipping and I think, I don't know, I've never really unpacked this mindset in any great detail. But see, I've grown up in Australia, spent a bit of time in different countries around the world. Fortunate for that. But the, I guess what we have in Australia is in theory, the salary that people are getting compensates for, hey, they're doing their job and their job should be done well in those sort of areas. But in the US, I understand it's a little bit different. There's, you know, they need to make a decent living through tipping. So maybe that's it, because I just have this sort of mindset that, hey, people should be paid a level according to their experience and then the performance on the role as opposed to.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: It definitely depends on the service that you're being offered. But, you know, 90% of all service related things are provided gratuities in some format in the United States. What's interesting, recently there's been kind of a challenge here with how during COVID and now past COVID, how out of control tipping has become to the fact where these delivery apps are asking for tips when you're paying before the person even delivers your food.
And like, well, how can I do that. How can I? I don't know how they did. How am I going to give them 10% until they. Till they do it? And so I think it's getting a little out of control. And when businesses are looking for ways to make money and they're raising their prices and they can't pay their service workers as much as they can, they do rely on tipping here.
It's the american way past the buck. So it's definitely something that you have to be cognizant of. And if you do get, honestly, really bad service, I think first and foremost, you should tell the server and what your challenge was so they have a chance to respond to it. Like, you know, listen, you know, I'd love to give you a tip, but, you know, our, our food was cold, and you might find out that, you know, I've been working really hard today, but, you know, they're really backed up in the kitchen, and I had no control over that, so I'm so sorry for it. So I think, you know, you'll learn stuff. You establish that relationship and that trust, but, you know, you never know what's going on behind the scenes.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: No, you're right. You're sort of telling me, Brendan, seek to understand first, which we know those famous lines, but I'm not always great at doing that, mate. So thanks for picking me up.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: No problem.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: I also dislike, just to allow me one little sort of get on my soapbox, that I have a personal. Not so much around tipping, but expectations. When there's an expectation before, actually, like you said, the great example of the food delivery, there's an expectation of tipping even before the service has been delivered. I have a real challenge with that sort of mentality.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So there is an expectation, and no question in the United States, and we see that a lot when we have foreign guests come into the United States that they're not used to the traditional way of doing it. Something that really gets me, and this is more on the proprietors that are doing this, is they're bumping up the percentage of it used to be, you know, 2030 years ago is never more than 15%. You know, the last 20 years, it's kind of creeped up to 18%. Now. 18% is the standard. Like 15% would be for bad service now. And now you're seeing 20% and 22% on the receipts. They give you a choice, you know, you know, pay this, pay this. So they've pushed all the way to 20. We're now coming up on, you know, that's a little crazy. And I've, in the high end services like massages or hair, you know, don't be surprised that the expectation is 25%.
And so I agree with you, service does matter, and we definitely should take that into account and never expect that because it's being recommended that that amount that, you know, it's what you're comfortable with. You're the customer. The customer is always right. It's your experience.
But it's also, I think people feel the need, especially Americans, to tip, like you said. And in that case, you need to step back and, you know, say, I don't have to. It's not required. If you have a really, really bad experience, it is one way to show your. That you were dissatisfied. Absolutely.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Let's hope they don't pull out their gun then and shoot you, buddy.
That wouldn't be a great outcome, would it?
[00:26:25] Speaker A: No, it wouldn't.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: But you've, I know you've talked a bit about in other podcasts, and some of the research I've done about, around sort of hospitality combined with travel and the ability to make connections. I think, again, more of our listenership is probably doing less travel. They're really sort of in their businesses and focused on that. Your business is a little bit different, but let's talk about the connection piece that comes with hospitality. How do you see that happening? Creating great relationships, creating strong connections, and using hospitality and that service delivery as a real framework for that.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah, so, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, traveling around the world with your clients. You could take them to lunch.
The important, I think the most important thing is to be prepared and have a plan for what you're going to do and think it through. So what are you trying to achieve, you know, by this? Obviously, we're all trying to grow our businesses and build those relationships. And that's how you grow a business, right? You build a relationship, you establish trust, and then you can, you know, ask for more business and they'll give you more business because you've done a great job. So when you're taking that situation, what I found is there's nothing a better place than in a one on one situation to establish that relationship and grow. And over time and during events, like I said, that can be, you know, a simple meal can be a happy hour, it can be a beer at the pub. But what you're doing is you're building that trust in the relationship and being mindful of it and, you know, establishing that goodwill that you can use down the road. So as you're building your plan on how you're going to do that, some client, some business professionals like to do golfing in the United States. That's a huge way to build that relationship. Over time, you're out there for half a day hitting the links and talking, and you're not talking business. I very rarely have talking business on a golf course. You talk about your kids, talk about your last vacation, you talk about, you know, your ups and downs in life.
And what you're doing is you're building a relationship. So, you know, in whatever environment you're going to do that, whether it's in the pub or on the golf course, you're being intentional about what you're trying to do. It's building a relationship. And once you build that trust, open up to people, I found that it usually pays off in spades for sure.
Yeah.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Basically, you're generally interested in the person as a person, aren't you? Let's say I'm a.
I'm not sure what they call it in the US here they call it allied health. So it might be a business owner who's got a physiotherapy practice, and there's various health professionals. Some could be massage, sports massage, that sort of stuff. You made reference to massage. How would give us maybe one or two things that come to mind. I know I'm putting you on the spot that how does a business like that, again, going to the sort of parbour golf course is not really the done thing. How would you see them as raising their level of hospitality and driving that customer experience? What sort of advice would you give them?
[00:29:34] Speaker A: So I think that's almost in a clinical setting, you know, like a massage or there is, you know, using that time at the beginning of the appointment. Appointment to establish that relationship, have those personal conversations, you know, how's your family and just, you know, establishing those close connections. And that takes time, you know, but if you're going to be seeing someone, you know, twelve or 15 times a year because they're coming in for your service, use that time at the very beginning and, you know, set time, you know, have that plan in place to make sure that you can get that, that time with them and use it to do it. A lot of people do it, especially initially by taking people through a questionnaire, asking them questions. But many times you're kind of just rushed into an appointment and you can have pleasantries, but I think taking that little extra time, no more than five minutes, to establish that relationship I personally find it makes you much more comfortable and it's much more pleasant, a much more pleasant experience.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: How important is something like note taking in when you're having those sort of conversations? And again, none of us remember everything, but there's so many people coming through from a service delivery aspect. Hopefully people are serving lots of customers and having large impacts. So how important is the administration of that or having some system in place so you can just put these little tidbits about the person it might be about? Hey, Andy, great to see you for your monthly massage. How's Marcy, your wife? And how was your kids graduation, you know, last week? Like, that's the sort of stuff you're talking about, isn't it? Like real connection stuff?
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. You know, my dental. I'll use my dental hygienist as an example. She.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: You got great teeth, by the way, mate. He or she's doing a fantastic job.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Thank you so much. She. She's. She remembers everything. I remember nothing. So I use my notes and my contacts for people. I try to find at least three interesting things. Remember their kids names, what grade their kids are, whatever it is, you can ask about them, their spouse or partner's name. I think that goes a long way. Just interesting tidbits.
Some people are naturally good at that, and some of us, like me, need help. I think whatever works for you, just make sure it's something that is easy to retrieve that you can do. You know, back in the day, everyone used note cards, and I still know people that are high, you know, high level sales professionals that use note cards on individuals and they just keep them in the car with them. But I think there's lots of different technologies and things you can use today. And, you know, information is out there, too. You know, you can find out so much about a person before you even meet them. And so whether it's, you know, something you learned about them or something that you heard from them, I think it's really important. LinkedIn is fantastic to say, go on before you meet somebody potentially. I read that article that you were in about a, B and C, and I really found this impactful about that that will resonate with people. And first and foremost shows you've done your homework, but it's also a kudos to them. At the same time, you're showing them that they mattered. And that's back to my original point is you want to make sure that your clients, potential clients, feel valued and mattered.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: Mate, thanks for taking the time to check that out. And it certainly came into my head when you talked about, no, like, trust a little bit earlier. So it's so important, isn't it? I mean, that is your business.
You've built a successful business off the back of that know, like trust and systemize that and helping others systemize that in their own business.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah, we really try to educate our clients. You know, a lot of our clients, clients are natural and really good at what they do, but they're not good at this, about establish those relationships in those kind of live settings and, you know, look what we all just went through with COVID and trying to establish relationship and rapport.
You know, I'm in Florida, you're in Australia, and, you know, we spent, you know, 15 minutes before this, you know, establishing a rapport. But how much easier would that have been if you and I had been in a room together? And so I think, you know, you have to be intentional about it. And what we try to teach our clients is that is to make it a step by step process to establish that relationship and most importantly, creating the atmosphere to do it in successfully. So if you are trying to get information from somebody, you know, maybe it's a. Maybe it's a professional you're trying to glean information from. Maybe it's a client that you're trying to get business from, but you need to find out what, what their needs are because they're being, you don't know exactly at that time what there is, you know, create the atmosphere to allow that to happen. Make sure you're intentional about that. All those little tips go a long way. And, you know, quantity is definitely better. So quality is better than quantity, I should say. When it comes to that, for sure.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: It'S going to be a little bit.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: We haven't even talked about listening yet. Listening to your client and what they're saying and how you're going to, how they're going to respond.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Mate, riff on listening a bit. A very important point.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, shut up.
It's really hard for people like us who have podcasts that like to talk all the time, but listening goes a long way. And I always marvel when I'm around my senior team. There's some very talented individuals on my senior team who are just really good at sitting there not saying a word, and they are absorbing everything. And instead of saying ten, you know, things off the cuff, they say one really impactful thing during that meeting and makes a difference. And, you know, there's a talent in that. So just being really thoughtful and thinking through and listening to what people are saying and taking it in and then absorbing it. Everyone, you know, takes in information differently. Everyone responds to sensory information differently. But you, sometimes it's good, like I said, just to shut up and listen and hear what they say and ask questions. And that really goes about creating that level of interest that you have in your client by asking them questions. Salespeople or people trying to get business or establish relationships, they're usually problem solvers. They're listening, and at the same time they're going, how can my business help them and how can I do that? But that comes with listening and asking the right questions, for sure.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And your last statement about the sort of problem solvers, a friend of mine who's called Oscar Trimboli, he's the deep listening expert, and he talks about the four listening villains. And one of those, his work is absolutely fantastic. Got a great couple of books as well. I'll send you some links after the show. But Oscar talks about one of the listening villains being the shrewd listener, which is exactly that. Like, it's not about suppressing those thoughts, but it is about doing what you're saying and knowing what sort of listening style you are, your dominant listening style and your secondary. And then you can just be self aware around it and hold it back. Hold on. I'm being a shrewd listener here. I'm thinking about the problem and how I'm going to solve it, rather than actually listening. And that's a, again, listening is such a skill that we're not taught. And even when you're taught, you've got to practice it a lot, and it's very, very difficult to do well.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not taught it at all. It's just something that is never in any academic book. You see, they don't have a class for it at university.
I think what's really important is I think most people learn over their careers to do it naturally. But some of us who have, you know, outgoing personalities, a lot of times have to really work at it and take it to listen, but also asking the right questions. Right, using that format, listening. But you have to ask the right questions. Ask those probing questions, follow up, clarify. And when you do that, you're again establishing that trust that you need, that you're interested in them, that you're helping them solve the problem that they have, because what's business but solving problems for each other on a day to day basis? So I think if you do that, you'll be very, very successful.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Once again, mate, couldn't agree more. What would you say to business owners out there that may be thinking, look, this hospitality thing and service is not, it's not part of my strategy. It's not really for me. It doesn't align for our business and moving forward doesn't attach to our growth requirements.
[00:38:38] Speaker A: Well, I would disagree. I would respectfully disagree and ask them the question, do you want more customers? And how are you establishing relationships with your customers? And if they say, well, we get website leads and they come in, that's really, really transactional. And when something doesn't go well in the relationship, you can't fall back on that. But if you've taken the time to establish a relationship and grow it and build that trust, that's what allows you to scale. Because, you know, you have this client, and then you go get this other client, well, you still got to take care of this client, right. You've got, not only there, it's much harder to go get a new client than retain an old one. So establishing that relationship, that friendship and that trust allows you to bring them along with you as you scale. And, you know, scaling is not the only reason you do it. You know, people have very successful small businesses, both from a fulfillment standpoint and a monetary standpoint, but they do that by having a tight circle of clients that trust them and come back to them over and over and over again. So I would say, is it part of any strategy and something that you should think about as you're developing your sales plan as well as how you're going to put it through your culture? Because whether it's the accountant, your accountant, or your front desk person or your salesperson, they all need some level of that skill to establish that trust with the people they interact with, that interact with your organization.
[00:40:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it? Because I can't, certainly the businesses that I work with and have worked with and no doubt will work with in the future, I can't think of any that should not and don't from, at least when I start working with them, don't have a pillar of customer experience like you don't have customers. What do you got? If you're not creating a great experience, what do you got? So, may seem like a daft question, but why wouldn't you be deliberate about creating the best experience that you can create?
[00:40:44] Speaker A: And that's why I'm out here. I'm trying to preach the gospel because I do think everyone needs it. You know, I think it comes unnatural for a lot of people, especially, especially people that are introverts who may not be comfortable in these situations, but those people a lot of times have a very calming presence and it's easy to them to build trust because of how they present themselves, but they have to work at the actual part of going out and being outgoing and establishing those relationships. But I think a sense of calm and confidence, even though you're not bringing in the business but you're establishing that confidence for the business in the way that you present it, is equally as valuable.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Maybe it's one of those things that there's maybe a little bit more, too much emphasis placed on the people that are a little bit more out there, I guess, you know, a bit more extroverted as opposed to those that maybe their strength is. Back to your point about listening. Ask questions. They can generally listen a little bit better in my own experience, and then they'll ask the right questions because they're listening. But again, as a society, maybe we place too much pressure on these people that are out there and sort of really throwing their hands about and hey, Andy and I like all this sort of stuff when that's not necessarily the thing that, that makes hospitality and great customer experience happen.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, like I said, right people, right seats earlier and also finding people that have a service heart, you know, people that want to, you know, be. Now, there are lots of business, there's lots of jobs and careers where you don't have to have any interaction with people, you know, but there's also lots of businesses and lots of career choices that you do. And if you are out there trying to solve someone's problem and you need to have a service, you know, a service centered, you know, approach to anything that you do, you need to be comfortable in that seat. Be comfortable in that you do that. If you're, if you're not comfortable in that, that seat, then, you know, that's probably not the industry or the role for you. And you should find something else because you're going to be happy. You're not going to be constantly confronted with those situations where you're not comfortable in. So having a service center at heart, at least in our business, is incredibly important. And we drive that every day to each one of our team members.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that term, service centred heart. The only thing I would challenge is that, again, I'm not sure if I interpreted this incorrectly, but there's that external customer facing hospitality and service experience. But I can't think of a job that doesn't require interaction in a team, you've still got to provide internal service to your teammates, because if you don't, then you're just a prick to work with.
[00:43:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. We haven't even touched on that. Right.
Your internal clients, and they are incredible. They can be an entire department. They can be the person sitting next to you. They can be a remote partner on the other side of the planet. Each one of those people deserves your time, your respect, your attention. So I'm so glad you brought that up. I know we've been talking external clients the entire time, but it goes the exact same way for internal clients. Getting to know your colleagues, getting to know who they are, who their family members are, all that makes a difference as you're building an organization and creating a hospitality centered business. When you do that, you make a huge difference, both in your business, but also in the relationships. Who wants to go through life having, you know, transactional relationships over and over again, you know, establishing those bonds? You know, we're humans. We're all about connection. That's what I'm talking about here today, having the human connection with each other. And when you do that, your business is going to thrive. I have no doubt at all, because I've lived it. I've seen it. I've seen. I've had team members that are not, and they just weren't a good fit for our organization. And we wish them the best. And they moved on because we needed people here at AMI that made that, because that's the only way we were going to be successful as an organization, especially in the line of work that we do, that we're traveling people all around the world and connecting them with their most important clients and teaching them how to do it. That's very, very important. And you can only do that when you have a really service centered view on how you run your business.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: Let's talk about mentors, mate. My belief is that success, there's always some sort of mentorship underpinning people's success. You've been around a long time, you've developed a really good, successful business, and you keep doing that and I'm sure it's going to keep thriving into the future. Your own mentors, like, who are they? What have they taught you? What have you learned from this group or these mentors that have come in and out of your life over this 30 years?
[00:45:56] Speaker A: Well, mentors come in all shapes and sizes, and they come in and out over life, sometimes you don't even know they were a mentor until they're gone and they're out of your life. But I think from a business perspective, I was lucky to have two mentors early on in my career that taught me how to develop a service oriented business and do it from a high, high touch, customer service.
And those two individuals be forever grateful for because they took me under their wing and they showed it to me and they didn't pull any punches. But most of all, I learned from seeing how they acted and how they did it and them allowing them. So if you ever have the opportunity to be a mentor to somebody else, just letting them into your world and letting them watch how you perceive and listening to what their questions are and letting them ask questions and not preaching at them, but just let them experience what you're trying to convey. And when you do that, when you open up your door to that, you're really passing something on that's great. And so I think on the other side of the coin, lots of relatives and family members over the years have provided mentorship in ways that, like I said before, I didn't even know until they were gone, just from how they taught and how they guided.
And now seeing things that I do with my kids and my employees that came from somebody that's no longer here is really, really special. So I think mentors can come from anywhere.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: I smirk a little bit because it's normally those close friends, family that keep us grounded, mate, and pull us up and say, Andy, pull your head in.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: Yep, that's definitely happened a couple times in my life.
And don't be afraid of Matt. I think the other, the other guidance to your listeners is, you know, you know, seeking mentors is really important. I think that's, you know, it's important. But also, you know, not, you don't have to call someone a mentor to be a mentor, you know, just being cognizant of the value that they can bring and how they. I have a neighbor who I love so much, and, you know, what I've learned from her is I don't care if she's had the worst day in the world. She greets you with a smile and says hello and just, you know, just, I could be in the most miserable mood walking my dog, and she just makes me smile every time I see her. She says hello, she says my name. She asks how I'm doing, how my family's doing, and it's just a great way. And, you know, I consider that, you know, a great mentor in how you approach people. So I think mentors come in all different shapes and sizes, for sure.
[00:48:58] Speaker B: In your own journey, have you ever thought about where your heart centered or service centered heart comes from? Where was that born from?
[00:49:07] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, we talk about this a lot, especially since we're out and about talking about it now. I think, you know, it's something that's innate in certain people who are very comfortable in doing it. So I've always just liked to make people feel good, and that could be from giving a present to planning, planning an event that makes people happy. It's just something. It's just innate in me. And I remember all the way back, I think going back to, like, 8th grade and student government and getting to plan stuff to make our other students excited, I think I really enjoyed it and said, hey, listen, this really, really makes me happy. And one of my first mentors, Pearl Krebs, who is my student council advisor way back when she was a master at this, of making people feel special and making experiences that made people really happy. And so I take it back all the way to then about learning how to do it. But that comes from the inside. You have to want to do that right? And so you have to want to feel natural in doing it. And when you do that, I think you'll be really successful.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Mate, in your own experience, who, what, potentially household names, market leaders out there, companies that you think are doing really, really well in that hospitality customer experience you referred to high touch. Have you got some examples there?
[00:50:50] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think first and foremost, you know, I'm a floor apart from Ami.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: Apart from Ami.
[00:50:57] Speaker A: Apart from Ami. I was gonna use Walt Disney to start off. You know, I'm here in Florida. I was lucky enough in 1972 as a six year old to go to Disney when it first opened up. And he created ultimate experiences that were emotional and visceral and just made people happy. And I just will never forget that. And I've read a lot about Walt over the years, and not only how he ran his business, he was a brilliant businessman, but how he built that culture in his organization about making people feel happy. You know, he didn't call his employees employees. He called them cast members, because he believed that they were, you know, casting out to their audience and making sure that they were someone that was part of a team that was producing something to create a great experience. So I think he's a fantastic example of how to do it right from a business perspective. You know, I'm a huge fan of any organization in the hospitality world, whether it be a great restaurant chain or a great hotel chain that trains their staff to be, to take it out in them, and they use hiring and training to find the right people. That's the most important thing, and then put them in the right seats. And the Ritz Carlton here in the United States and around the world is really great at this. We've got lots of employees that are former Ritz Carlton team members, but there's lots of examples of that where they take someone that has a service centered heart and then train them correctly. Those two things together create that really special experience.
And you just know the difference when you're talking to one of those individuals who's been trained that way.
[00:52:59] Speaker B: When you talk about, you talked earlier about finding the right people for your business, is there some correlation between people coming into your business that have that level of hospitality customer experience mindset, that service heart or service centred heart that you're talking about coming from hospitality industries, or is there a bit of a mix coming from those hospitality industries and other industry areas?
[00:53:26] Speaker A: Well, we hire a lot from hospitality because, you know, people naturally kind of, I think they're naturally drawn to it as, as a business professional. Like, where do I want to spend that time? Do I, do I want to be an analyst, you know, or do I want to, you know, serve people? So, you know, from flight attendants to people who are hostesses and waiters to hotel professionals, you know, we pull from a lot of these types of, types of individuals because they want to be there. I think that's the first step. You're looking for people who want to be in hospitality, but then you have to make sure that they are really a good fit for you. And some people fall into hospitality. You know, it was a, they started out in college, they were getting a business degree and then they were waiting tables, and that waiting tables turned into an assistant manager, system manager turned into manager, then they transferred over to the hotel side, but never, they never really were in it. So I think you have to be cognizant of that. But looking for people, and I think asking the right questions during the hiring process is a big, big difference, a bigger differential. If you do that correctly, you can save yourself a lot of heartache over the years, for sure.
[00:54:42] Speaker B: You talked about high touch service. Can you give an example of some high touch service experience you've had that's been extremely memorable?
[00:54:53] Speaker A: Oh, you're going to put me on the spot, huh? Absolutely, I will. So there is a great, there's a great cruise line called Sea Dream. It's a luxury cruise line from all over the world, at least on this side of the planet. And they have just what I consider an incredible product of unmatched service.
Everything from how they approach you when you board the ship to how they interact with you the entire time. They're never more than five, someone never more than 5ft away, making sure you're having a great experience. Now you have ten days to have this once in a lifetime experience. You're paying a lot of money and they just, they seem to have it down. And so that is a recent example of someone that has trained well, has hired well, and people truly want to make that person's experience really, really special. So if you, if you want a great cruise, go to sea dream, Seadream yachts.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: Sounds like you're a good marketer for them, mate. The first thing that comes to mind, though, is that if you, something like that, again, an exclusive sort of organization and they've got a certain caliber they're aiming at, how does, if I'm a business owner, looking back at that and think, okay, well, I don't have the budget for this sort of stuff to have, you know, so many staff and all, like, what are you, what do you say to them? Like, don't think like that. Think like this.
[00:56:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So thinking about what your customers get in the mind of your customer, what are they really looking for? Asking the questions and making sure that you follow up on what they've told you. At the end of the day, good customer service is just about delivering expectations. What expectation did you set on your marketing? You know, we're the best, or, you know, we have the best service or we have the best product. Well, do you really? And if you do, what is the expectation around that? So you've set that expectation. So you have to deliver on that. Now, how are you going to deliver? You deliver by asking questions like we talked about earlier, making sure that you understand the needs, and then you deliver on those, those needs. One of our core tenets at AMi is being accountable for your actions, taking responsibility for what you do. So if you screw up, it's okay to screw up, you know, there's no problem. But you need to be honest about it. You need to be forthright and you have to learn from it. And if you do that, you're going to make a big difference. But how do you prevent that? You ask the right questions. Right? You ask the right questions. You deliver on what you say you're going to deliver on and you try to exceed expectations. And when you do that and you're cognizant about it on a day to day basis, it makes a huge difference. And we're not perfect. We have, you know, we mess up. It just happens. Life happens. You know, things happen. But I think, you know, being accountable for those actions is very, very important. And when you do that and you teach that and make that part of your culture, and you don't, and your staff's not afraid, you know, to say, hey, I messed up, or, hey, this happened, how are we going to address it? And when you have those calls, and I've had them over the years with clients, listen, we messed up. How can we amend this? And we're going to learn from this together. And nine times out of ten, that's more than enough for anybody.
[00:58:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the core message I take away is that you don't have to have a big budget or access to a big budget for good hospitality.
[00:58:34] Speaker A: It's about building what you consider your culture to be around this, around hospitality and service. And when you do that, it's really, you know, just having it defined and then training on it. People need to know, you know, you know, if you set this as a party and as part of our interview process, we say these are our expectations.
You know, would you have any, you know, would you have any problems fulfilling these expectations? It's a pretty long list, but we want to be honest with you because you'll be really, really happy and successful at AMi if you do that. And if you're not, let's talk about which ones you're not comfortable with and why. But, you know, having those core tenants are really important. And then, you know, identifying the people during the hiring process and then training them on it afterwards is absolutely key. Absolutely key.
[00:59:25] Speaker B: You mentioned or defined that service as delivering on expectations, which I think is great. The only thing I would say as well, or what springs to mind is that if you want to stand out, deliver above expectations.
What do you think?
[00:59:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I did say I just deliver on expectations, but I also exceed expectations. Right. When you can, right. You can't always exceed expectations. You know, you have budgetary constraints. You have, I mean, there's a bucket list of things that can go wrong anywhere, but what you can do is be honest about those expectations, but you always want to exceed, obviously, when you can.
[01:00:01] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, mate. Is there, in your experience, is there a difference between being friendly and being hospitable?
[01:00:08] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think being hospitable is being friendly in a business context. So, you know, I think friendly is much more of a, you know, a one on one personal relationship. I think being hospitable, having that hospital hospitality mindset is more from a business context and that's where the difference is. You know, they're both very similar. I think hospitality leans a little bit more to the professional.
You know, you can be really, really friendly, but if you come off too friendly, it can be kind of coy. I think being hospitable and professional in that context is really, really important because that's what people are. You know, they want to work with people that they trust and they know they're going to represent them well. Whatever context, whether you're an attorney, an accountant, or you do what we do for a living, they want to make sure that they're confident that you're going to deliver in a way that they're comfortable.
[01:01:10] Speaker B: Let's start to finish up with some gory details, mate. Again, in your experience, have you given some examples where organisations have had some epic fails on there? They'd like to deliver a good level of service and hospitality, but it's not worked out as planned.
[01:01:28] Speaker A: Oh, man, I can tell personal experiences as well as examples, but we work with partners all the time, especially with technology.
Technology fails. Hopefully 90% of the time it's not going to fail. 10% of the time technology fails.
It just does.
Everyone from the Internet clicking a router, going out brings everything down. There's things that you just can't control.
I've seen lots of examples of how technology has, but whatever fails, it really is, Brendan, how you respond to it and how you do that. I've seen just people that are masters and control these situations. And I have deep, deep respect for all of our employees who work in technology. Our audio visual engineers, our graphic designers, the people that have to be on the hot seat when it really, really matters. But in those scenarios, how you react to the failure is more important than the failure.
How you respond to it and turn it around. And that's really what makes the difference, for sure.
[01:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah, agree. It's a real skill, isn't it? What sort of things bug you when service is not as expected?
[01:02:53] Speaker A: You know, just the little things, you know, like standing up when someone comes up, you know, to you as a professional, you know, asking someone's name, shaking their hand, you know, walking them if they ask directions, kind of walking them in the direction of where it is. It's the little things, those little touches that make a difference and make people feel comfortable, you know, smiling when you. When someone walks up to you, you'd be surprised how many search professionals I see that, you know, they're just having a bad day, but, you know, that's not the person's fault, that is trying to get the service. So I think just, you know, really trying to be, you know, present and have a nice smile on your face. That's a great place to start, right?
[01:03:42] Speaker B: Absolutely, mate. All of those resonate with me. Probably the one that most resonates is the asking somebody. Take a grocery store, asking someone, where's the. I don't know, where's the tuner, for example? Oh, yeah, just down there on the left. And, you know, about three quarters of the way down, rather than, again, you really notice a difference. And there are people that do this like, oh, let me take you to it and I'll show you exactly where it is. It's like that difference is chalk and cheese, isn't it?
[01:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it's hospitality 101. Hospitality 101 is, you know, provide direction. Another one is, you know, open up your palm, never point. There's a good one, right, make it flow and easy for someone to follow you. But, yeah, walking someone, you know, 1015 steps in the direction that they're going and then pointing them, taking them away, opening the door for them. When you simply walk somewhere, these are very, very simple things to do. And if you have that mindset, it just comes natural.
But we all need to work at it and be cognizant of it, for sure.
[01:04:48] Speaker B: And back to your point about training. Look, a lot of the time these are young people, you know, developing some independence and having a job and kudos to them. Fantastic. But they probably haven't been trained in order to do those sorts of things, so you can't blame them, can you? It's really at an organisational level that. Back to your point about culture and understanding the foundations of this and this, what you deliver on the training, and if people do that, I'm sure a higher chance, a higher probability of them would do it.
[01:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And those mentors, like we said earlier, really help with that as well, creating those mentor relationships so people can learn by seeing and doing.
[01:05:29] Speaker B: I'm not trained in the hospitality industry. The one that I've never heard before is this pointing verse, open palm. Is there some psychology around that? Can you explain that a bit more?
[01:05:42] Speaker A: I don't know if it's an american thing, but pointing in America is considered somewhat rude. So I think, you know, especially in.
[01:05:50] Speaker B: A. I sit here and go like this to you annie, it's not. Not a good sign.
[01:05:56] Speaker A: But as you're, you know, an open palm is very welcoming and a lot. And just the gliding of the hand can make it very personable and very professional. Professional.
So no point, no pointing. See, that doesn't look good. That doesn't look good.
[01:06:15] Speaker B: No, it looks terrible. You've got bigger, bigger fingers than me, too. They look like they could hurt a bit more. That point.
It is that, like you've said in this conversation, it is these small little detail things that make all the difference. So thanks for sort of hammering that point, mate. Let's end with our final question. What is it in your journey that's impacted you in becoming a more confident leader?
[01:06:43] Speaker A: I think it is the point that you get where you believe that you can provide guidance and support that has come from years of knowledge and that you understand that because all of us question our own abilities on a regular basis. But when you get to that point as an individual, where you can provide the guidance, and then you're intent on doing that on a regular basis, providing guidance, being a mentor, those really, really matter. So, you know, my journey and been doing this for 30 years now. It's been a great pleasure to build an organization that is teaching this to, you know, young professionals, but also doing it in a way that's fun and they enjoy and it's providing a good service to our clients. So that's what I'd like to leave with is, you know, if you are trying to build a successful business, having a service centered business, you know, what does that define what that means to you?
Hire based on that and then train, train, train. And when you do that, you build it. Part of your culture, and you can help us succeed.
[01:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Message is clear, mate. I have one last question. I did lie. I can't help but try to appease that. Hopefully. It's a small, little narcissistic tendency that we all have. You mentioned about the looking up of people, and you can find information about them, you know, just creating that connection and touch points. What dirt did you dig up on me?
[01:08:23] Speaker A: I didn't pick. I did. I didn't pick any dirt. I promise.
I promise. Is there any out there that I.
[01:08:29] Speaker B: Should be worried about covering things?
[01:08:31] Speaker A: All right, well, I'll come back next time. Invite me back and I'll have a laundry list for you.
[01:08:36] Speaker B: Sounds good, mate. It's probably not difficult to find, although I don't know how old you are, but, you know, maybe similar generations. So we're probably lucky that we didn't have social medias and phones in our way back then.
[01:08:48] Speaker A: I fear for my children every day, no question.
[01:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm with you, mate. I'm with you. They do have a few extra challenges that we didn't have to deal with.
[01:08:57] Speaker A: Well, thank you for your time today. I really enjoyed being on here and talking about hospitality and you know, I appreciate you introducing me to your loads of fans. Thanks so much.
[01:09:10] Speaker B: It's absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for coming on and I'm very, very confident that what you shared today, if a business owner cannot or anybody in business, but again, our market is generally that business ownership side the decision makers. If they can't take something from this and implement in their business, then they're not trying hard enough or it's just a cop out. It's something that they don't want to do. So thanks for the fantastic stuff that you shared, the experiences you've shared, the stories, the fails and the successes. And kudos to you in the ongoing success of your own business, mate. Thanks for being a fantastic guest on cultural leadership. My pleasure.
These were my three key takeaways from my conversation with Andy. My first key takeaway. Confident leaders have a service centred heart. They lead with empathy and a genuine desire to serve, always making people feel valued and understood. This approach not only enhances customer satisfaction, but also fosters a positive workplace culture that prioritizes service and hospitality.
My second key takeaway, confident leaders understand the power of memorable experiences. They know that the key to business growth and client retention isn't just in delivering services, but in creating unforgettable moments.
By exceeding expectations and paying attention to the little things, you can transform even the simplest interactions into memorable experiences.
My third key takeaway, confident leaders embrace continuous learning. The business landscape is always changing and so are the needs of customers. Learning from failures and continuously seeking ways to improve is how you stay ahead.
Your drive for continuous learning underpins service innovations that will drive long term business success.
So in summary, my three key takeaways were confident leaders have a service centred heart, confident leaders understand the power of memorable experiences and confident leaders embrace continuous learning.
Let me know your key takeaway on YouTube or@theculturalleadership.com thanks for joining me and remember, the best outcome is on the other side of a genuine conversation. Sa.
