Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:03 Welcome to the culture of things with Brendan Rodgers. This is a podcast where we talk culture leadership and teamwork and plus business in spoon.
Speaker 1 00:21 Hello everybody. I'm Brendan Rodgers, the host of the culture of things podcast. And this is episode 11 today. I'm speaking with Simon Neyland. Simon's an experienced executive who is currently the general manager of Alinta Australia, as well as the founder and director of two startup businesses. Jangler and schooling. It's fair to say. Simon is a guy who likes keeping himself busy. I first met Simon a couple of years back. We sat in a cafe in our local area and Saman shared with me some of his story and how he was developing a mobile app that he hoped would revolutionalize the active giving. Ever since he is someone I'm proud to call a friend. Now, I don't know why I didn't explore it at the time, but I never asked why he was so passionate about what he was doing. It wasn't until a conversation. We had a couple of months back that he shared a deeper meaning to his work, sharing that story and understanding how his purpose drives everything he does is the focus of our conversation today. Simon, it's such a nice change to have you actually physically sitting in front of me today. Welcome to the culture things podcasts.
Speaker 2 01:29 Thank you for having me Brendan. And, uh, yeah. Good to put a face in front of you instead of a phone.
Speaker 1 01:34 Absolutely. Mate, let's dive right in mate. How about, I really like to start with you as a guest, just sharing a little bit about your journey so far, what you're about and where that's taken you today. And then we'll get into the crux of the episode around this power of purpose and what you're doing.
Speaker 2 01:50 I'm one of six, um, the standard Catholic family, one Oh six, number three. Um, at the time when the Brady bunch was, was the Brady bunch, I was literally one of three boys and three girls, no house maid called Ellis, uh, grew up in Western Sydney, North Western Sydney, a place called Winston Hills and went to school there. And now I'm a proud father of, and husband of two young adults. We've to the central coast back in 2000, 2001, spent 10 years up here. And then we decided to make a shift back to Sydney. Um, ironically that I reverse engineered my, my commute. I was commuting one way and then, uh, moved to Sydney and I got a job on the coast.
Speaker 1 02:33 Let's get into Janga. So one of these startup businesses that you're a founder and director of what really touched me, I suppose. And I mentioned in the introduction, we, you know, this conversation that we had around the driving, your purpose for Jenga, share some of this story. What took you on this journey with jangler tell us, tell us about the story of Jenga.
Speaker 2 02:53 Okay. Well, it came out of the blue really Jang lit up my general day work is generally schools, and I would add already embarked on a bit of a mission on a, on a different project called school link. And what happened was, I think it was in 2018, a couple of years ago, a good family friend of ours and family, really. She came to us and let us know that she had been diagnosed with cancer that came out of the blue. This is the type of friend where Karen, her name was Karen and Stu, her husband and Beck and I, and our families would actually holiday together. So we'd spend our holidays together and then we'd get back and make plans throughout the year. And, and we get back in February and all of a sudden Karen's, she felt a bit bloated or whatever during the holiday.
Speaker 2 03:35 And all of a sudden there's a diagnosis of there's. I think it was appendix cancer, a really rare form. So we got this news and Beck and I were sitting at home and you know, what do you do? You know, they're just processing the information. They're all shocked. You don't send flowers. It seems a bit more of a, to send flowers. And we just wanted them to know that we were thinking of them and we're processing it too, but we didn't want to cramp their space. So what I did was Becky and I, we thought let's just get them dinner. We knew their local Thai restaurant. So we rang that restaurant. And I tried to explain, look, I want to leave my card details here. And this family will call. And when they do, I want you to pay for it with this card. And it seemed a really confusing kind of way.
Speaker 2 04:15 And it took, it took away the joy of the thought. And I was just thinking there, I think that there's gotta be a better way where if you instantly have a feeling of whether it be empathy or, or congratulation or, or thanks or whatever it might be, there's gotta be a way where you can not only give the gift, but give the meaning behind the gift. And I don't think it would be rates was really happening at the time. And even with an Uber eats type product, which we could have organized, it didn't seem to hit the emotional Mark for me. And for me, the gift of giving is always about the thought, not about the, the monetary value or the gift itself. And on the other side of it, I guess, uh, I'm a firm believer of that people get way more out of giving, whether it be their time, their energy, their whatever, make people laugh or whatever it might be, then then receiving.
Speaker 2 05:01 I think there's a small amount of guilt bridge to receiving. I think sometimes where people sit there, they don't feel worthy or so that's where it started the original frustration and trying to come up with a solution. Well, that's an amazing story. And if you don't mind me asking, how is Karen's journey going? Well, Karen is going well. She went through the first round and unfortunately, geez, I think about six months ago it came back. So she's at the back end of that, this second round, but you know, Karen's amazing, you know, she, she's the glue of that family, the glue of friends, and she's a tough woman and that family is amazing, including Stu. So, um, she'll be right. She'll be right, you know, and, um, she's kept a family and a friend's clothes and, and they're getting it through. What does Karen think about what you've done?
Speaker 2 05:48 Oh, well, I think she's a little bit chuffed maybe that, um, you know, and we don't talk about it much, the process of building the app wasn't as quick and simple as I thought. So by the time I sent that one of the first Jangles, it was to Karen when she had received her second diagnosis. So it was really sort of bittersweet in that way. So I said, I'm sending her a jangle and yeah, with the message that I did really didn't want to be about, about that. But I think she's a little bit proud and I did talk to her about, can I mention her name? And she was quite fine. So I think she's, I think she's okay. How have you articulated this for your business? You know, this is a fantastic story and it's a real drive. And sadly what we talk to businesses about, about understanding your purpose.
Speaker 2 06:30 And so often their businesses, don't take the time to realize that this has actually started your journey, which is very unique. And you're a man who's got drive around that, but what are those words look like in your business? It's a good question. And I think when you asked me to come and have a chat, it made me think about, do I even do that enough? Do I do that at all? Is that just something that I'm thinking about subconsciously and what was good was the team consists of my brother in law, who is a very skilled operator working at easy Melbourne. He's worked for companies like Microsoft and Amazon and you know, really high level thinker. So he's married to my sister and my sister's also had her journey with cancer. So there was, I think there was a correlation there with us and, uh, Josh and I, again, we don't talk about it much.
Speaker 2 07:16 We just focus on the sort of the day to day challenges, wins and losses and everything else. And the other guys involved is a company called app boxer who do amazing work on the branding and the name and, and all those things. And we had a chat early on about it. I can't recall talking about since, but, uh, Josh and I, I think we have a deep understanding of what and why, and Sarah too, and, and my wife Beck. But yeah, I don't think we sort of hone in on it as much as we should. I guess it was really interesting to me. And again, we've known each other for a couple of years now, and I think it's fair to say we get on pretty well. And we had lots of good conversations and it's something that was only came out a couple of months ago, maybe through my own lack of curiosity or whatever.
Speaker 2 07:58 I mean, I've used January, it's a fantastic product, but it means so much more to me now because I understand the story. What impact do you think that's having on your relationship and the people you partner with with Jenga? One of the most important things we did early on was I met a couple of young guys and the project was called my shout before it was called anything else because, you know, I wouldn't just come up with a brand or a name like Jenga. And my shout was by its own name is like my shout. I'll be honest with you. It originally, it was, it was all about money. I literally wanted to send you $10, my shout for whatever, but apparently you need to be a bank and there's a few regular rules and regulations around money like that. But look, we really needed people that felt certainly passionate about the project and that had the energy to move really quickly with, with the product itself.
Speaker 2 08:50 So like I said, I had started with doing school links, so a lot of spare money was gone. So we had to really engage Josh and Sarah and approach some other people about, about getting behind the cause of it. And through that process, we're able to work out who saw the project as a spreadsheet and okay. Ins and outs and profit and loss, and who saw it about, you know, what I just believe in, in any way. And the outbox had guys stood out for me from day one on that. So it's, it's driven that sense of we're all losing on a startup. We're a classic underfunded startup. You get to the product development time and you're like, where do I go? Where do I go now? So if you don't have that in a sort of understanding of the way I look at it, we've facilitated many hundreds of people being surprised and feeling good.
Speaker 2 09:41 So that's, what's got us through the journey. Tell us about how the power of purpose and for jangler, that's really strong. How has the power of that purpose driven you through the tough times when you are building something and you haven't done anything like that before you're going to come across different hurdles and challenges. And I think the main things that get you through a work ethic, relationships and drive and the drive, you can put the why under the drive, but why really is overarching across all of them. So going back to picking the right team, if you like energy and people that weren't sort of all about the spreadsheet, as we talked about, we were able to, to recall the reason for it. And also certainly able to recall it internally. I mentioned before, I think, I don't think we've really articulated it other than just the sheer competitiveness to get this product to market.
Speaker 2 10:34 And I don't think I've reminded people what it's actually going to do for people. Uh, an investor said to me, um, who was talking to me about, he said, well, look, you don't exactly curing cancer. And literally, and I thought, you know, we're not, we're not, we're just a really small, tiny, little, little drop in the ocean. But what we are doing is creating a platform for people to be able to make people feel something. So the team probably needs to be reminded more, but certainly it's, it's hopefully through my persistence and, you know, hounding of, of them, they've all just been amazing about getting this product to market. What is it that made you start to connect this story, this purpose to actually this product and, yeah. Okay. You're not curing cancer, but you're making people feel pretty good. And there's a strong purpose behind that.
Speaker 2 11:21 It was sheer frustration or helplessness around not being able to solve a problem. My me and my wife will often tell me, I'm not telling you a problem to solve it. Well, I think a lot of people are, they just don't want to admit it so you can often get lost in the daily tasks and the challenges that come in. So there were plenty of times when you wouldn't even think back to the reason or the motivation, why you almost sort of drowning, you know, I just have to have to make this work. But I remember that it was a couple of times when I was sent something from the developer and it flashed through in it, it literally gave me goosebumps. The first time I received a, it wasn't even a gift. It was a, it was a video message through the testing site.
Speaker 2 12:02 And I sat there and I got goosebumps because I was partly proud and partly excited, but I got goosebumps cause it made me feel something. So, and then I went back to the frustration at that time. And that just got us through that last three months of the project, because the idea, the process, the, my shout into jangler, it all culminated in this one experience and excellent people are going to feel that at some point, hopefully if they, if they believe or do use the product, it's such a great living example in front of me, around Solomon civics words, they're ringing my ear. People don't buy what you do. They buy, why you do it. It just resonates so much. It's funny that the person handling the marketing and the socials and everything, and we're trying to drive this as best we can. He's been saying for a long time, you really need to be able to tell the story.
Speaker 2 12:50 And I've sort of, I've just been telling the process and I haven't really related back to the story. So yeah, it's certainly given me a bit of drive, even just change you about it. Now, how about we get to the, maybe the easier part. This is the thing that, like you said, people just go to the process of actually what this product, what is <inaudible> it's pretty simple. Jangler is a mobile app, which houses 40 odd gift cards from national brands. And with Jenga, what you can do is from me to you, I can jangle you. So if you're a jangler, you're somebody who likes to the archetype is actually a joker. You know, you've got the archtop around the brand. So if you're a jangler, you want to make people feel good, you want to make them laugh. You're that? You're the jester. If you like, so you can go onto jangler the app and I can jangle you a gift card where it gets unique and where it gets fun.
Speaker 2 13:40 And it's sort of, it's the most fun you can have given a gift card. In my opinion is you can send that gift card with in a social way by attaching a video. So for example, when I went back before and I mentioned to KA that we gave Karen a Django, when it first came to market, I sent her a heartfelt video on, I can't believe the irony of me sending you this at that time, but there's been other moments where someone's had a, the managing director of best sheds picked up the product and started jangling people like every Thursday and Friday after work. So he used it to engage his staff. And this is well before the pandemic. So jangle is the ability for me to send you a gift card with a, either a photo, a video, a GIF and gifts have been really popular, or just a text message.
Speaker 2 14:27 The reason it's good is that it is a it's instant and it's two way. So when you give something and you post it off, you don't get the endorphin hit back of knowing they got it or received it. So with January, if I, if I send you a jangle and you get the card, it sends me a push notification straight away saying, Brandon's received your gift. Well, who, you know, but then you have the ability to say with a video, with a GIF. So it's a two way transaction in a world where we just aren't always, can't always be together giving each other, the physical gift these days and the worlds, the folded to gift cards. It's the lazy gift. So let's make it a bit fun, but more, yeah.
Speaker 1 15:06 Recent experience with Django is, you know, I used it quite a bit over Christmas, just as a thank you for my clients and appreciation. I had to show them. I can't remember if I use the video so much, then I honestly can't remember, but mother's day. And my father's birthday is actually right around mother's day as well, obviously social distancing and all that sort of stuff. Restrictions are in there in Queensland. They were actually traveling in Outback Queensland and based himself there, but I was able to send him a jingle. I was able to do a video message for mum for mother's day and a video message for dad. And I'd already sent them one before. So, but they just loved it. Just amazing. Isn't it, you know, this whole COVID-19 situation and to do all the, do that, and actually feel like there was a connection there and doing it. And to me that just actually supports exactly what you've just been sharing about the story feeling happy. There's a connection. Again, I can feel myself getting tingles, just talking about it. Now you must be so proud of that situation and those sorts of stories
Speaker 2 16:02 I am. And it's coming about it quite a bit out of the blue. We've had a number of people send, send emails saying, you know, for people that felt like they weren't being thought of, or you know, where they've received this and they've had that feeling. So yeah, to take a process, which giving a gift is a process. It's me giving you something I'm ticking a box. So to then humanize, that is pretty cool. So we don't lose, pass or fail, you know, there's progress in people remembering why, why they're giving a gift. So if you can articulate that with a video or something special, then all power to them. You mentioned that word
Speaker 1 16:37 Process, this stuff doesn't just happen. You don't click your fingers and where you've got jangler up and running. You've talked about purpose and vision to reality. Tell us a bit about that journey. How have you actually got, and the hard work and the process involved in getting to where you've got to today in jangle as a fully fledged product,
Speaker 2 16:56 It started with the brand of my shout and when it really took on a life of its own is when we, we engaged a branding company to give it a personality. So that's when Janga was born and if you know, a Gengler adjuster. And so once we had that and we had our Y it was about creating a really simple process and, and I've never built an app before. I may never build an app again. Um, but I really enjoy process. I enjoy finding a problem and cutting down the process into small bite sized chunks and the development team have the smarts and the understanding on how to challenge that and make it even better. So it's been challenging. There's been literal roadblocks where this thing would not get up. I made a few assumptions early, which were incorrect, and therefore we had to unwind some programming and we had to actually find a new partner to house the cards and, and with the technology, because originally it was going to be for money as, as I mentioned, and you're just not allowed to become a bank overnight.
Speaker 2 17:54 So it didn't matter about if it was for money or for, you know, ribbons or for a gift card. It was still about the feeling, right? So I guess how we got through it was making some good decisions, learning from our bad decisions, turning them into, into opportunities and never giving up. So just chipping away each day. And that's literally what it was. I've got a day job and it was a nighttime thing. So consistency is what it is like any startup, a real labor of love, I guess you could say, what would you say was the biggest challenge in that process? They'll two, one was, it was a really odd feeling trying to find or think or ask for investment. Having never been involved in a startup where you go for, for an investor, it's like, you're asking for money, or it's like, you're asking people to put in with no guarantee.
Speaker 2 18:45 So I found that a pretty awkward process. And I met some, I met a few people and we got along well, you know, people go, that's a good idea and all that sort of stuff, but I found that challenging and it wasn't until, you know, Josh and I were involved in schooling together. And he's like, Hey, why don't you show me what this is all about? And I am a bit embarrassed that I didn't first up. I don't know why we worked well together and we still do. And so thankfully he solved that problem for me. So that was challenge one challenge. Two was, um, having to pitch this product to huge organization for us to put our social gifting platform with their, their gift card group. And then each of the vendors had to approve the process. So now the biggest ones, everything else was detail, you know, just small things, you know, legals, all that sort of boring stuff, right. The thing that's sticking out to me and we, we have a number of mutual friends in our network, but Andrew Peyton Smith, who's the founder of <inaudible>. And I'm not sure if you've met Andrew, but I think you should have a chat with him because he finds it so easy to always ask for money.
Speaker 2 19:49 I think it's his, his English heritage. He's always putting his hand out. Yeah, well maybe I need to get him to do that job for me get some coaching from Andrew, but she's always asking for money, but thanks for sharing around that vision to reality again, really fascinating journey. What I want to just ask about is the, just this purpose that we're going back to and how this has inspired you continually day to day, but also how has it helped drive decisions in your business? Well, we launched in December in December, so we're six months in. So it's funny, you asked that question now because you know, we're always, we've just gone through it. What is the gifting period, if you like, and that is the Christmas Valentine's day mother's day. So it's a good, it's a good place to stop and have a look out of that beta phase into sort of fully fledged product went.
Speaker 2 20:45 And we had a shareholder meeting last week. So the challenge we've got is for example, we were chatting about, you know, we all want to throw a lot more functionality into the product and, but there's a real process around just throwing good money after bad number one. And secondly, marketing takes time and costs money. So we were really able to sort of sit in a circle and just, just remind ourself of the positive experiences people were having. And again, I don't think I relayed it back to the original purpose, which was probably my own. And I think people need to be able to correlate that with something in their own life. So it's driving decisions because to be completely Frank product, won't be a success overnight. It'll this will be a grind. People don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw at this sort of product.
Speaker 2 21:30 So it's going to need that DNA on the product daily, and it's going to be what we're going to lose before we win together. And we might need to bring on some extra people to help get that through. And those people will, um, whether it be sweat equity or, or other things, we'll just find a way to do it. There's a chart for startups, basically. It's, you've got an idea. Awesome. You've got a brand everything's feeling great and building the product it's going to be amazing. And then your launch and it's like, what's happening when you're meant to get to your first 500 or thousand downloads from a standing start. It's not easy from a B to C sort of product where you've got to engage and it takes seven, eight touch points for people to actually trust, to put a credit card into a product.
Speaker 2 22:13 So we're in this, you go through the excitement you're launching. Everything's great. And then you go into this, they call it the depths of despair in the journey. And that's where a lot of people lose focus and lose momentum and go, well, this was meant to be the best thing since sliced bread. And it hasn't, you know, hasn't got a million, this and that and that. So that's where we are now. And I don't see it as despair. I just see it as I expected that we will get to this point. So knowing that that exists is important instead of having my Rose colored glasses on. So now it's about how do we climb back up into the, the energy that we had when we were developing the product. And that was a lot of fun, even though that was so hard before we built the product, if I would have said to myself, Oh, I'm just going to be so happy with this every day, you know, cause we're finally at a market, but it's not that way at all.
Speaker 2 22:59 It's not that way. It's, you've got to continue to draw back on that reason of why you did it because you're going to be, if you do it, like I've done it, you know, you're going to be a product that's going to be, or I wouldn't say broke, but you're going to be having challenges. And you're going to want to push hard to get the most out of it. You've got to fill the fuel, the fuel, the fuel app. We've got the car, we've got the motivation, we've got the steering wheel. We just got to continue to put fuel in that car to keep it going. I love analogies. I love that analogy to me, that power of the purpose, that's the fuel. And that's what keeps driving. You also love what you said around. People need to connect that purpose and your story behind Shangla to their own situation.
Speaker 2 23:39 And people do that. And how you started to articulate the purpose for Gengler. People now have a chance to do tell us about the dream Jenga. Where do you want Jenga to go, to be honest, that the dream is, is, might not be what you think the dream is really for people to think of others more. That's the dream. And I don't want jangler to be a product where you're ticking the box. It's a birthday, it's a wedding. It's a, that's, they're the obvious things. If you're a Django or whatever, I want you to be able to think of someone who's had a rough week and send them as it's it's about surprising and delighting. No, one's so getting surprised, getting a present on their birthday, they know they're coming, you know, let's surprise people by making them feel thought of just for no reason at all.
Speaker 2 24:24 And it doesn't have to be monetary. I get that. I get that. But sometimes it can be sometimes, you know, you might have a single mom of two or three kids and they've been working all weekend and you know, and you've got to think of others, right? So you know that they're going to be getting home and having to cook a meal. So jangle them an Uber eats card and just give them a message. So I know you work hard and just let me shout your dinner tonight. So yeah, the dream is that people think of others more and not for those obvious reasons from it. I mean, from a business perspective, the platform is there. We can actually, we could literally turn it on in America and Canada and the UK now because of the group we've partnered with, we would need to have a partner on board to do that.
Speaker 2 25:06 So I guess if I'm from a business perspective, I'd love to have a partner that sees that vision. And that would like to have a chat about that side of the journey. Um, I haven't started the ball rolling on that, but we could literally turn it on in a few weeks in all countries. So, you know, I'd like for Gengler to be in the, in the vernacular of people and I want you to be feeling a bit guilty if you're not, you know, because it's not all about us. And you know, that's the idea, but you're the ultimate Go-Giver. And again, I need to tell people a story and you ring me up. It was probably about three or four weeks ago. Now, when you just said, Brendan, I love what you're doing with the podcast. I want to give you some money that you can use and you can jangle people and just say, thank you.
Speaker 2 25:49 And particularly guests. And I'm like, wow, that's just like, but you didn't want any mention of this. You didn't want sponsorship. You didn't want anything. You just are living and breathing exactly what you're talking about with your jungle. So I needed to share that and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you very much. No, no, that's fine. It's um, you know, I do believe in it and it seemed a normal thing to do. And you know, that would go back to my parents without a doubt. They were the most giving and still are, you know, the most selfless giving people. I know. So that comes from them. So I'll, I'll thank them from you. Tell us how listeners can get hold of you buddy, through the usual platforms we, you know, certainly on, on LinkedIn, I have a profile there. It shows a few of the things I'm doing. We have jangled.com that I, you are, can be contacted through through that the website or the email addresses. Hello at <inaudible> dot com today, you I'm around. I can be found pretty easy and I like a chat.
Speaker 1 26:44 So, you know, coffee, coffee's good, you do made it. So it's always a pleasure to sit down with you and just have the conversation that we have going in all sorts of direction. And it's, it's always been a pleasure, but I just want to say a massive thank you to you for, for coming on board for actually having the courage to sit in the same room as me given the situation. But again, we're, we're socially distanced, which is great, but it's great to have you in the, in the studio, in my home office for, for the podcast, well done on what you're doing. It's absolutely fantastic. Like I said, during this episode, I loved the product. I love the fact that when we first met and how you told me about the concept, I thought it was absolutely fantastic actually having to use it. Now, we're not having to choosing to use it a number of times now, and it's a fantastically, simple product to use.
Speaker 1 27:29 But now, again, as I said, connecting the story to that, it just makes it so much more meaningful for me as a product and the message that I want to get across around this. And I think you've articulated really, really well today is that anyone can build a product like this, right? It's just a product. And if you've got the money and you know, it takes a bit of money and you know, some sweat stuff around it, but the journey and the purpose behind that is what makes the fundamental difference. And that's what you've got with Jenga. So like, well done. Thank you for coming on the show. It's been an absolute privilege. Thanks for having me. And look, to be honest, thank you for helping me add a bit more fuel to the, the engine. So talking to you about this as sort of your confidence in the product people, you know, and you've used it multiple times and just being able to talk through this has just added a little bit of fuel. So thanks for the gas, absolute pleasure, mate. I hope that again, through the cultural things podcast and our listenership, we can share this story and we will share it far away. And I hope it helps. Shangler really touched the hearts of so many people that you're hoping to touch the staff. Thanks, Brandon. Thanks for having me
Speaker 3 28:49 In my books. Simon Island is a champion after trying to do something good for his friend, Karen, upon hearing the terrible news of her cancer. He experienced a clunky process, which took away from the gift of giving and he decided to do something about it. He didn't make excuses or complain. In fact, knowing him for several years, I've never heard him complain about anything. He just gets on with it. He turned that poor experience into something brilliant that all of us can use to humanize the act of giving jangler was born while as you heard, it wasn't quite that easy, but he got there in the end. As Simon said, it's been a long and challenging journey, but the power of the purpose behind Gengler has kept him and the team going. These were my three key takeaways from my chat with Simon. My first key takeaway, clarity of purpose drives collective commitment.
Speaker 3 29:52 People like to feel that they are working towards something grained and aspirational. When this is clear, it brings people together. Simon mentioned how, when times are tough, going back to their purpose helps to get them through. My second key takeaway, connecting with purpose helps you make good longterm decisions. Simon talked about how this came into their decision. When choosing a development partner, they chose a company who was aligned with their purpose. They knew this would be a better and stronger longterm relationship. It also helps to keep them on track when reviewing what they're doing and for making decisions on areas like functionality enhancements. My third key takeaway purpose creates an emotional connection. People don't buy what you do. They buy, why you do it. These are the famous words of Simon Sinek. Anyone can build a product or deliver a service, but the purpose behind it is what people actually connect with.
Speaker 3 31:02 I use jangler before I knew the story, but now I want to use it more because of the purpose behind jangler. So in summary, clarity of purpose drives, collective commitment, connecting with purpose helps you make good longterm decisions and purpose creates an emotional connection. I encourage you to download the jangler app, surprise and delight someone by making them feel thought of, do your bit to help jangler humanize the act of giving. If you have any questions or feedback about this episode, please feel free to send me a message@brendanatbrendanrodgers.com.edu. Thank you for listening. Stay safe until next time.
Speaker 0 31:56 Thank you for listening to the cultural things podcast with Brendan Rogers, please visit Brendan rogers.com to access the show notes. If you love the cultural things podcast, please subscribe, rate, and give a review on Apple podcasts and remember healthy culture is your competitive advantage.
